Lazy Jacks

[4900bruce]

I am replacing my lazy jacks at the moment.currently have a boom bag which has lazy jacks incorporated with bag.am throwing boom bag away and having cover for sail and boom made this week.
Today I installed several plastic saddles along boom ready for light nylon to go through to form lazy jacks.
I am wondering why no one runs nylon line from topping lift down under boom and then back up to topping lift.line can be spaced evenly down topping lift
It seems to good to be true ,drop main and it is guided all the way down to boom and when hoisting main battens cant get caught up with lines.
The only negative I can see is the lines may interfere with air flow around sail when sailing but this happens to a lesser degree when using lazy jacks any way.
any suggestions, thanks bruce.

[jjt]

You mean something like the Dutchman mainsail flaking system?

Doyle Sailmakers

[4900bruce]

yes and no
dutchman system has a line going through holes in sail from topping lift to boom.
my idea is based on dutchman but line goes from toping lift down windward side of sail , under boom and then up leeward side of sail back upto starting point on topping lift.
measure 2 metres down topping lift and run new piece of line down to boom and back up again and so on.

[s/v Jedi]

Well, the reason we don't do that is that we don't have a topping lift.

But I would be very curious about your idea: please try it out and tell us about it here!

With our regular setup it is the 2nd highest batten that must be watched as it can catch on the lazy jacks while hoisting the sail. It takes some practice but it's easy once you know the trick. Sometimes, in very light conditions, I have to give the boom a push to clear the batten; in very windy conditions it's easy.

Related to this is the reefing lines: they caused me much more trouble while hoisting the sails. They tended to get messed up into a big knot. I solved that by changing from double braid line to single-braid slippery vectran (spectra works even better I think, like that Samson Amsteel).

ciao!
Nick.

[Jmolan]

I like it, but I am trying to visualize when the sail is set, the topping lift is slack...so that would be OK as you would want the control lines to be slack. Then when I reef or stow the sail I take up on the TL...would the control lines go taught or go slack again? why is this one not clicking in my brain here? Will check this out in a few days when I get back on the boat!

[Tempest245]

I'm not picturing what you are attempting to do either. There was a vendor at the boat show">Annapolis boat show, that had a system ( kit ) that raised and lowered the lazy jacks.
When lowered they lay snug along the boom, if I recall.

I thought it was a reasonable solution to having the battens get caught when raising the sail.

[nautical62]

As I think of my boat - lines from the boom are more inline with the sail direction as it comes down. Also many people need to slacken the topping lift when they sail to get proper sail shape. This would loosen lazy jack lines attached to them and make them more prone to getting tangled. I think these lines would also be more prone getting caught on the batten ends at the leach.

I'm curious as to why you don't like the integrated sail cover. I have that on two of my boats and love it.

[rtbates]

Chafe... is the reason you don't see what you describe. That and you would have no way to pull the lazy jacks forward to the mast to elimate chafe while sailing or batten hangups on raising sail.

[4900bruce]

as lines from topping lift to boom are parallel to mast, battens would never again get caught in lines as sail is being hoisted.
the negative I see is chafe against sail when sailing.
I hated the boom bag .it came with the boat.The owners before me had made boom bag , spray dodger ,lee cloths and whinch covers from a heavy vinyl , very strong ( I walk on spray dodger ) and has lasted 16 years .
The boom bag held dropped main above boom and side bits that attach to lazy jacks made it very hard to reach when zipping or unzipping bag.

[Pblais]

as lines from topping lift to boom are parallel to mast, battens would never again get caught in lines as sail is being hoisted.

I don't see that being true. They can not be parallel. When tied to the topping lift both port and starboard lines meet at the top at one point. The gap between them is not as wide at the top as lazy jacks run forward to the mast. It makes the slot as wide at the top as at the bottom (maybe wider). We had a blocks on the mast so the lazy jacks were on halyards. You could lower them completely. It had it's value but the process of putting them up and down was annoying. The extra line to deal with on the mast was a problem too.

Getting the smaller upper battens caught in the lazy jacks is the negative part about them. You have to be to windward and you have to read the flapping of the sail to get the first two battens past the jacks. With a halyard you lower the jacks at the end of the day and raise them after you hoist the sail. It becomes an extra reason to go forward since when you need to drop the main it might be because you are needing to do it right now. Having to raise the lazy jacks first is only OK in fair weather.

[markpj23]

I agree with Paul... if you have lazy jacks and a full-battened main you WILL get the jacks caught on the sail at some point.

[sabray]

I pull my lazy jacks back to the mast before hoisting the main and while sailing. no issues with the set up

[wsvoboda]

I made my own lazy jack system It's called the Lazy Bill system. Please check out the pictures, It is made with 1/4 inch line and all eye splices, no more pulleys or blocks to wear out the sail.

[4900bruce]

pblais ,if you ran all lines from boom to topping lift pulley at top of mast yes the lines would not be parrallel with mast but I have said measure for example 2 metres from top of mast down topping lift halyard,run line from here down to boom ,under boom and back up to starting point.now that line is parrallel wth mast ok.now measure 4 metres from top off mast down topping lift halyard , from here run a second line under boom and back upto starting point.
you now have two lines with main sail trapped with in and both lines are parrallel with mast.
topping lift halyard is holding boom up ,hoist sail ,sail is now holding up boom so ease off on topping lift halyard and off course bruce jacks have also gone slack allowing sail to form correct shape.
It is the same system as a dutchman but instead of one line weaving in and out of sail this system has the lines on each side of the sail.
I have now fitted new sail cover on boom,love it . when sailing i can now see all of sail . before trying to put reef in main was a nightmare,boom bag covered bottom off sail track ,pin to stop sail slides coming out off track and if jiffy reefing line and pulley on boom was chewing up sail or not.

[Pblais]

you now have two lines with main sail trapped with in and both lines are parallel with mast.

They are parallel from a side view but not plumb to the mast. They meet at the top at one point. The gap from each side is a triangle not a box. It's not like a Dutchman system as the Dutchman uses only one line that is relativly very small diameter.

If you look at wsvobota above the lines are attached farther outboard. It appears to be attached outboard on the lower shrouds. To me the gap looks too wide and the lazy jack lines too large in diameter. Chafe from pulleys is eliminated and exchanged for chafe from large rope.

How close the topping lift runs along the sail is going to yield different results. Slack in the topping lift does not really establish the top of the lazy jacks very well and they don't need to run that high. I'm also not much for attaching parts of rigging to other parts of rigging. Conventioanl lazy jacks are attached to the mast and boom only.

I have now fitted new sail cover on boom,love it . when sailing i can now see all of sail . before trying to put reef in main was a nightmare,boom bag covered bottom off sail track ,pin to stop sail slides coming out off track and if jiffy reefing line and pulley on boom was chewing up sail or not.

I prefer that setup as well especialy when setting a double reef.