lazy jacks from spreaders or mast?

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Why up high? The higher up the spar the lazy jacks are mounted, the better the odds of the sail fouling on them. And they serve zero purpose but to keep the sail on the boom, which means that they're only really useful for the first few meters of a the mast above the boom. Non?

Think of them as a funnel for the main. Low, with a wide entry angle/envelope will make'em work much better at catching the sail, including from a much wider range of sail angles, such as reaching. Just as with a wide funnel vs. a tall skinny one.

If the top mounting point is low, the lines are too close to being parallel with the flaked sail and it spills out on deck. the higher up the top mounting point, the lines are more nearly at right angle to the flaked sail and contain the sail better.

Don't know why people insist on raising the main with the LJ's deployed. Every boat I've tried it on has had problems with the Jack lines snagging battens. Some times it's meant lowering and raising the sail 2 or 3 times to clear the battens. With the Lj's snuggly secured at the mast, no problem raising the main.

Personally think Jacks fastened to the spreaders look bad.

[UNCIVILIZED]

So for the advocates of the blocks for the lazy jacks being up high, answer this. Do you ever have someone hold the lazy jacks part way forward, & further apart when hoisting the main?
It makes things less likely to snag right? So why not just build them this way from the start? It's not as if you need, or even want lazy jacks once the main's half way hoisted, or it's but half way down. Rather they're only desired when the main's down low, or on the boom. Not the other way around.

And to be blunt, anyone who thinks a tall skinny funnel works better than a short wide one needs to go play with a few styles of them for a bit. The physics of them ain't what you'd call complex. Where, the principle by which they work is via creating a wide "window", & forcing the contents of that "window" into a narrower, & narrower chute.
Bottom line, which type catches more rain, the one with the big "mouth" or...

Also, consider this, why would this thread's topic even be an issue if putting both sides of the lazy jacks close together (on the mast vs. on the spreaders) was so clearly superior? And hypothetically speaking, if the blocks for them were put out at the tips of the lower most spreaders, you could quite easily hoist & drop your main while on a beam reach.

Damn!

[Snowpetrel]

Ive had problems with low lazyjacks allowing the leech to fold over the jacks and catch on them when dropping the main downwind or reaching, or in light airs.

Head to wind its no issue, but I hate having to go head to wind just to drop the main. So thats a plus for the tall narrow funnel concept, but it does make raising sail harder for sure.

[cayennita]

Originally Posted by Pendragon35

I'm hoping to fit lazy jacks on my Alberg 35 this spring. I like the plan in Good Old Boats. It's simple, and it makes for lazy jacks that can be out of the way when not in use.



In the article, he hangs them from his spreaders. I've heard several people do it that way, some do it from spreader height on the mast. Any thought on relative advantages/disadvantages?

Mine are mounted on the mast with turning blocks and a cleat low on the mast so that sail cover can be properly fitted. And farthest aft is 3/4 back. Keep them stored under the sail cover and the then shock line from the stays to keep them quiet. Not in the way raising the sails and dropping the main is easy since you have to go into the wind.

[Rotten Ricky]

Several points need to be understood about lazy-jacks. They are not there to help raise the main, so until they are needed to collect the main when you strike it - leave them secured at the goose-neck, out of the way.

Also, if they do not come well back along the boom, they can allow the main to spill all over the place back there, getting in the way of the cockpit controls of my boat. So if the location of your controls in an aft cockpit boat are out of the way from the main falling off the boom you might be OK, but I think that how far along the boom the lazy-jacks go, depends on the location of the cockpit (mine is 3/4 aft) and other things on each individual boat. My lazy-jacks work well from about half way up the mast, but I need to lengthen them along the boom ASAP. They do no need to be out on spreaders.

And when they have done the job of containing the main, and the sail ties are on, I take the lazy-jacks and secure them at the goose-neck again and the sail cover goes around them and the sail. Pretty quick and easy to do. And they are outta the way of raising the main again.

Cheers to all,

RR.

[Roy M]

On a slightly different note, here's what I will be doing with my own lazy jacks, a bit unconventional, but very effective. Well-respected San Diego rigger Fritz Richardson helped me accomplish this on a customer's boom. His problem had been that the lazy jacks kept fouling with the battens as the sail was being raised. Fritz and a welder friend had designed, what I call,a "gull-wing" boom structure that flares out from the boom to place the lazy jacks further apart from each other at their base. In addition, it creates a "basket" with a custom boom cover that cradles the furled sail, making a simpler means of protecting the main when furled. And, now you have an incredible set of handrails when on the cabin top at chest level. It changed everything for that boat and now I'm using it in my plan. Here's a pic:

[Privilege]

Roy, I like this idea...or something like it. Yesterday my sail bag ripped when a batten caught on the lines and I continued to crank the winch wondering why it was a little stiffer! If your bracket continued to the mast, you could cover it with fabric and completely do away with those pesky lines. I spent last night trying to devise some kind of permanent structure which would be bolted to the top of the boom, similar in shape and appearance to an ordinary sail bag and which would only need a Velcro cover to enclose the sail. Thoughts?

[SVTatia]

Sometimes you have to reef the main and you don't have the option to head into the wind. The risks of a spreader setup just to make it more convenient to raise the main are unjustified.

You have to have your lazy jacks designed to be put away unless needed or…

I have sailed many many miles with lazy jacks and I could raise or reef the sails on any point of sailing, lazy jacks always deployed, and yes, it was a skinny funnel and it worked all the time.

I had no problems… I had no battens…!

Different strokes for different boats.

[Pendragon35]

Just want to thank everyone who took the time to respond. Out of this discussion, I've decided to mount them on the mast, to a point about 75% down the boom, three falls on each side, set up so they can be hooked to the mast while raising the sail and sailing.