Length of whisker pole

[Tillsbury]

Hi all. I need to get a whisker pole, to be used for poling out both genoa and asymmetric. I (bow to mast) is about 6.2m. Genoa foot is about 7.5m. Spinnaker foot is 10.4m. What length of pole would you suggest? Do I need to get an extending one, or do you think a single length would do if I get it right?

Cheers in advance for any suggestions...

[Tillsbury]

Bump please. How long is yours (as they say)? Do you wish you had a longer or shorter one?

[Alan Mighty]

Here's my go, Tillsbury. I'm sure someone will come along in the usual way to explain my errors and so forth:

1. The canonical advice for the length of a whisker pole (aka downwind pole and distinct from a spinnaker pole), is:

Length (pole) = Luff perpendicular of the headsail (or 10 - 20% more, depending on goodness knows what).

2. Formula #1 is accepted by racers. But for cruisers other considerations may change the answer:

(a) a shorter pole is lighter and so can be deployed and stowed more easily than the canonical length. For a short-handed cruiser, the pole that is easy to be deployed will be the pole that is deployed.

(b) for a medium-heavy displacement boat (which includes my Led Myne and some but not all monohull cruisers) sailing downwind is limited to hull speed. So having the extra or optimum length matters little (but if you've a lightweight racer-cruiser, planing down a wave front might be important to you).

(c) if you are mast-mounting the whisker pole, then mass and wind resistance are important (and, speaking only for myself, I can deploy and stow my mast mounted whisker pole a lot more easily and faster than if I were to have to pick it up from a deck mount and introduce it to both the mast and the headsail sheet). If you're mounting the whisker pole on deck, then of course picking it up and stowing it all involve mass and length.

Many experts suggest that in survival storm situations such as in a tropical revolving storm, whisker poles should not be left mast mounted or stanchion-mounted and should be mounted on deck or removed below decks.

All that explains why my boatbuilder recommended (and I accepted) a whisker pole that is about 30% shorter than the LP of my overlapping genoa (it's only 20% shorter than the LP of my working headsail if I've arithmetized correctly). Getting close to 20 years later, I don't regret it.

[StuM]

Same length as tack to clew on your headsail is a common rule of thumb.
(Not quite the same as the length of the foot in many cases - especially with an assy!)



Which means a telescoping pole is definitely preferable if you are planning to use it with a furling genoa or multiple headsails.





(BTW, Bow to mast is "J", not "I". "I" is vertical deck to highest headsaiil halyard )

[GordMay]

Quoting from the West Advisor:

“Telescoping whisker poles let you use one pole with furling headsails or multiple sized jibs and genoas—one size fits all. Your pole should usually be adjusted so it is 100% of the length of the headsail being flown, measured from tack to clew.”
➥ https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvis...a-Whisker-Pole

Originally Posted by StuM

Same length as tack to clew on your headsail is a common rule of thumb.
(Not quite the same as the length of the foot in many cases - especially with an assy!)

Which means a telescoping pole is definitely preferable if you are planning to use it with a furling genoa or multiple headsails.

(BTW, Bow to mast is "J", not "I". "I" is vertical deck to highest headsaiil halyard )

[Hardhead]

posted to wrong thread - deleted

[jewt]

Have been using a telescoping pole attached to a track on the leading edge of the mast so the pole may be hoisted vertically and attacked to a fitting on deck. With the "topping lift attached near the end of the pole the mast end on the track can be hauled down and the pole swung out and attached to the jib sheet. The sheet can then be adjusted to get the pole as close to 90 degrees as possible.

Jewt
S/V Bifrost

[Tillsbury]

Great, thanks. I will look into an extending pole then. There is already a pole track on the mast, although the boat’s never had one. I had an extending pole on my previous boat in the uk, although it wasn’t a particularly good one. I suspect that my issue there was cost, and with an extending pole it’s going to pay to spend up to get the right gear. It’ll be stored on the mast in good weather, to make singlehanding easier. Sounds like something between 5-9 metres would be ideal.

[Sailorbob8599]

Ah, yes; Spinnaker Pole vs Whisker Pole … and the difference is?
I've always considered the Spinnaker pole to be exactly as the name implies. eg: for flying a Spinnaker, whereas a Whisker Pole is for poling out a headsail. The telescopic feature permits using it with various sized headsails.
My only advice here is, make sure you buy the right diameter size for the maximum sized headsail on your boat because, having one fully extended with a 150 (or larger) Genny when the wind pipes up, or heavy wind gusting, can result in disaster for the pole. How do I know this?
… I guess there must be some severe loads imposed upon the pole if caught in such a situation. I must say, it is quite something to watch from the safety of the cockpit, your $150 pole suddenly take on a U shape just prior to 'Sproinging' off into the wild blue yonder before taking the deep six. It was barely a month old & only the second time I had used it ... Proof that sailing really is all about throwing money into the ocean.

[elandra65]

Hi,

whatever you do don't buy a Forespar telescoping pole. I bought the largest for my boat (50 ft mono) 14 tonne and it just kept failing. It is OK for light winds but I wanted something for long distances off the wind in the trades (like most people do) and it is hopeless for that. The internals kept failing and then the pole folded up in 20 knots true off the wind. I still have the pole albeit repaired/replaced and modified as it cost a lot of money and only fly it retracted substantially in moderate winds. The design is flawed in that the internal rod used for extending (stinger pole) is a fraction in size of the actual pole and is expected to take double the compression load. Simple physics that seems to have been forgotten in the design process. I ended up just using the two telescoping pieces and using a through bolt to hold in position. If starting from scratch I would of simply buy two tubes that telescope, two ends and a through bolt. Much cheaper and stronger.

hope this prevents another dissatisfied customer.


regards

Andrew

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

[...] Sounds like something between 5-9 metres would be ideal.

What size is the boat? I have a 4-6m pole on my 45' sloop.


J is from headstay to mast, not bow to mast.

[Taipe]

I will second the advice to avoid an adjustable Forespar and will add that I would avoid any type of adjustable whisker, as it is one less thing to go wrong. IMHO, it is not uncommon in a sudden gust for the external sleeve of an adjustable whisker to break, exposing sharp edges at the weakest point which is usually at the outboard end of the inside sleeve. To tame it at this point is to risk being flailed by the sharp edges. Another reason for avoiding the adjustable is that it is considerably heavier to deal with. Most likely you can get good use out of a spinnaker using a fixed length whisker that you plan to use for the LP of your headsail because you will be using the spinnaker in lighter winds where flattening out the foot is undesirable.

Also, I think taking down a whisker from a mast and securing it on deck might only be prudent when unable to outrun a storm of hurricane strength. My spar is easy to deploy with the main'sl topping lift and in addition to being secured to the mast at each end is secured to the mast with a padded lanyard near the midpoint by climbing a few fold-out mast steps If heavy weather is expected.

[roverhi]

The telescoping poles extending mechanism is not strong enough to be used as a spinnaker pole. They won't take the compression loads of a spinnaker on a close reach.

If your boat is near the maximum size reccomended for a whisker pole by Forespar, upsize it. Mine was right at the border line and pretzeled a day into it's first passage poling out the 135% genoa in moderate winds. Of course it happened at 0 dark 30 on an overcast moonless night. Didn't see it go but there was some flexing of pole extended out to about 2/3rds is max length before it bent.

[Tillsbury]

I’ve heard bad things about Forespar telescoping poles, and you are confirming my suspicions. At Nz$3500 I would not be impressed if it failed. Perhaps a better idea would be a relatively large simple pole (say 6m) and attempt to use it for both. Over here it seems usual to buy the ends (about $100 each) and fit them to a cut length of tube. It would be so much cheaper and obviously stronger.

[Pauls]

There's a lot to be said for simple, cheap and strong on cruising boats.