Let’s Rig This Boat!

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I have a reacher (not sure how that varies from a screacher) that attaches to the end of the prodder, if we are close hauled and I'm to lazy to take it down I loose 3-4° of apparent wind angle, not sure of the effect on True wind angle.

On a performance cat the loss in TWA is huge due to the relative speed. With our gennaker (too full and big to be a screecher, and sheets outside our shrouds to the back corner of the boat) we can go 45* AWA, but with a TWA of 80*+ we’re no longer going upwind. We are sailing at boat speed = TWS.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I have to say, I’m a little disappointed in how the foresails work.

It’s like back to the old days of hank on monohull sails.

I don’t want to go forward to change sails all the time. Now I see why they have all those threads saying most cats motor everywhere. That sounds like awful sail handling. Something that would keep you motoring instead of going to do all that sail work, only to have the wind change and take it all back down, then put it all back up. Not fun

What’s the best way to rig this type of boat where you don’t have to keep putting up and taking down sails?

I want to control the boat from the helm. Not the tramps.

Spinnaker excepted, since you have to fly that on most boats anyway.

Can I get away with a permanent and roller furled screecher and a sausage asymmetrical spinnaker, then?

That would be in addition to the normal main/blade combo.

You have a performance cat with likely similar or slightly better sail area to displacement numbers as for our boat. Here’s what to expect:

- Upwind between 9-25 knots TWS you will be fully powered up with blade jib and main, with reefing of the main and partial furling of the jib as needed. Above 25 knots TWS you could further partially furl your jib, or deploy a staysail. If the staysail were permanently rigged inside your forestay that would make tacking the jib a pain.

- Downwind and reaching from 15-20 knots (depending on angle) TWS and up your blade jib will be plenty, unless you truly want to always push your boat to maximum speeds and enjoy risking your rig and potential capsize.

So it’s only in lower wind speeds that you’ll want the extra sail area of a screecher for upwind and reaching. I don’t see a problem with a (near) permanently rigged screecher/gennaker for the lower wind speeds, given the issues others have mentioned. In lighter winds the weight and windage penalty is not huge and worth the convenience.

Unless we’re expecting the wind to build over 20 knots we don’t bother to lower our furled gennaker when we’re not using it. It’s on the end of a bow pole about 1.6m forward of the forestay. But trust me when I say that in building conditions I don’t feel comfortable until the gennaker is lashed to the trampoline and its halyard is back on the pole and very tight.

In addition to our self tacking jib (*) we only have a furling gennaker and a symmetrical spinnaker in a sock. In the 5 years of sailing this boat we’ve used the spinnaker exactly 4 times. However, we’ve also never had the privilege of sailing a long downwind passage. Generally in lighter winds we’ll sail along 140* AWA and keep the headsail working, or in stronger winds go wing and wing with the jib and main.

But if your second sail is a screecher then you’ll want the asymmetric for reaching and running. You can put them on a top down furler, but that definitely cannot be permanently rigged as the risk of unfurling in higher winds is too great. If you rig a furling asymmetric on your bow pole together with the screecher put at least 30cm between the attachments to allow room for the furls to not interfere with each other up top (unless the asymmetric has a masthead halyard, then that’s less of an issue).

(*) We actually have three furling headsails that we operate without partially furling: blade (self-tacking) jib, 65% staysail and 18% storm jib. The staysail and jib use a 2:1 halyard and are hoisted furled when needed, necessitating a trip to the front beam to attach their racks to a furler and to swap the jib sheet. That trade off is worth it for us.

[Chotu]

Thank you, Fxykty!

I am only just seeing this now. It’s a great introduction to some more quantitative ideas about the rig.

Reading all that detailed information, yes, I’m trying to get the light wind performance up a bit with. 3rd sail. Where I am (east coast USA), it’s typically not windy enough. What would be the very first additional headsail to add for light winds? 5-10 knots is very common.

I came across a picture of a Schionning (sp?) with quite a few headsails rigged up. Just adding that to the thread to visualize the foredeck and possible attachments.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Thank you, Fxykty!



I am only just seeing this now. It’s a great introduction to some more quantitative ideas about the rig.



Reading all that detailed information, yes, I’m trying to get the light wind performance up a bit with. 3rd sail. Where I am (east coast USA), it’s typically not windy enough. What would be the very first additional headsail to add for light winds? 5-10 knots is very common.



I came across a picture of a Schionning (sp?) with quite a few headsails rigged up. Just adding that to the thread to visualize the foredeck and possible attachments.

For primarily light winds forget about a self tacking jib as your primary headsail - rig as large an overlapping genoa as will fit inside your shrouds. Have it designed such that you can reef it to self tacking size (no more than 30% reduced) while still retaining reasonable shape and you will have a sail for 6-15 knots TWS.

The Schionning picture shows a gennaker or screecher on the end of the pole - note that there’s isn’t enough room to tack the large sail in front of the forestay, so each tack means furling the sail. IMO it’s not worth the hassle of a screecher if sub 10 knots is normal for where you sail.

An overlapping genoa means you don’t need a screecher. So then your third sail is a gennaker/code 0 for 50-130* AWAs. A spinnaker of some sort takes care of the deeper angles in lighter winds.

Schionning likes permanently rigged staysails on his larger designs, as does Chris White. Makes a lot of sense if your primary headsail is an overlapping headsail, as by the time the genoa’s reefing furl yields an ugly sail shape the wind has come up enough for the staysail (around 18-20 knots AWS). If it’s set far enough back (say 1.7-2.0m) then the genoa can still tack through reasonably cleanly. Your mast will need a set of permanent aft-set shrouds at the head of the staysail halyard.

As for the main, make it as large as you possibly can so that it is optimised for full power at 8 knots TWS (hopefully your mast is tall enough). Your first reef should take you to early 20s AWS (say from 10-15 knots TWS) and will place the head near your hounds. Think of this as you working rig in moderate breeze - full genoa and first reef.

2nd reef should place the mainsail head at the head of the staysail - this is your fresh breeze rig for 15-30 knots TWS (lower winds with reefed genoa and higher winds with staysail).

For stronger winds you want a deep third reef that will take you to 50+ TWS, with a reefed staysail, a storm jib (an over the furl style easiest to manage) or no headsail at all. Bare headed is how the round the world trimarans and the IMOCA boats handle sailing upwind in big winds.