Lifelines -- standards

[rognvald]

" I also always am tethered to the jackline forward of the cockpit, although that has limited value as being dragged through the water" CarinaPDX

Jacklines mounted on the cabin top parallel to the boom prevent going overboard. Jacklines mounted along a toe rail are useless since you will go overboard. My jackline padeyes are mounted with screws torqued into epoxy filled oversized holes and will not fail in a worst case scenario.
Rognvald

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Yes, get rid of the vinyl-coated lifelines - they are a disaster waiting to happen. On my first Atlantic crossing my lifelines failed twice (after sailing in salt water for 4 years). The first failure was a result of severe corrosion to the SS wire, hidden by the vinyl, near one end. The second was the twinky tubular turnbuckle. I never touch the lifeline unless necessary: I always grab the handrail on the housetop instead. I also always am tethered to the jackline forward of the cockpit, although that has limited value as being dragged through the water is just a faster way to drown. Unless a second person is aboard then going over/through the lifelines is a fatal error, even with a tether.

I replaced those lifelines in 1996 in Ireland, with 1/4" flexible SS wire. I am only now replacing them again, because rubbing caused a strand to break. 5/16" is not necessary, and in fact is a much larger problem - if it even fits through the stanchions. 1/4" is more than strong enough, and large enough to not become a cheese cutter on your body, but also small enough that a simple crimper can be used. I terminated the wires with Nicopress fittings and SS eyes - a very strong and robust solution, easy to do DIY, and also inexpensive. 5/16" requires different crimpers ($$$). No more silly little turnbuckles for me: I use lashings to tension and adjust the lifelines. Again, they are an inexpensive and robust solution. They do need to be replaced every few years to be on the safe side.

Greg

Fortunately the current set of vinyl lifelines is only a few years old and hasn't seen salt water. The old ones were starting to lose their covering, but were in surprisingly good shape when I replaced them at 35 years old despite most of that having been in salt water.

Once I figure out the hardware side of the equation I'll definitely be swapping to bare wire. Up to 3/8" will fit through my stanchions, but I don't need to go that big. The biggest reason to go for 5/16" over 1/4" is for comfort when using them as a hand hold. The original coated lines were 1/4, the current 5/16 are much easier to grab.

Keep in mind this is a powerboat, so we're rarely moving around the deck in rough conditions, plus the deck layout and movement patterns are a bit different than the typical sailboat. If it's rough and we're underway, there's very rarely a reason to go forward. Generally a walk up the side decks is done with 1 hand on the lifeline, 1 on the inboard hand rails unless you're carrying something.

For the tether situation I've always understood that the tether needs to be short enough that you can't fall overboard, specifically to avoid the getting dragged and bashed against the hull problem.

[roland stockham]

the initial post misses an important point. Lifeline strength is usually immaterial. The strength of any system is it's weakest link which, in the case of lifelines, is almost certain to be the stanchion base. That strikes me as the likely origin of the 400lb static load criteria. A 30" stanchion with a 3" base subject to 400lbs will subject the inside bolt to a 4000lb load. that will likely snap an 8mm bolt even if the deck is sufficiently reinforced for it to not simply rip out. Lifelines will not stop someone falling against them.

[seanallen]

I remember Bill Pinney telling me that he was refused entry in a race because the lifelines on his 47’ Rachel J Slocum, were made from rope and not wire. The rope was both stronger and much easier to hold on to than wire but it was not “in the rule book”, so, no go. Good to see that progress has been made in this area. With, perhaps, a bit more to do?

[5BTM]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

the initial post misses an important point. Lifeline strength is usually immaterial. The strength of any system is it's weakest link which, in the case of lifelines, is almost certain to be the stanchion base. That strikes me as the likely origin of the 400lb static load criteria. A 30" stanchion with a 3" base subject to 400lbs will subject the inside bolt to a 4000lb load. that will likely snap an 8mm bolt even if the deck is sufficiently reinforced for it to not simply rip out. Lifelines will not stop someone falling against them.

Stanchion bases on my CS27.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

the initial post misses an important point. Lifeline strength is usually immaterial. The strength of any system is it's weakest link which, in the case of lifelines, is almost certain to be the stanchion base. That strikes me as the likely origin of the 400lb static load criteria. A 30" stanchion with a 3" base subject to 400lbs will subject the inside bolt to a 4000lb load. that will likely snap an 8mm bolt even if the deck is sufficiently reinforced for it to not simply rip out. Lifelines will not stop someone falling against them.

This is part of why it shocks me just how many sailboats I see with stanchions spaced many feet apart (as opposed to the 30-ish inches apart they're spaced on my boat).