Mast Cleat Choice?

[roadrunner65]

I'm adding a cleat to my aluminum mast (Catalina 34) for my genoa halyard. It's currently run to the cockpit, and I find it to be a waste of a rope clutch. Is there a strength difference between a Forespar Marelon cleat and a comparably sized Schaefer aluminum cleat? The price difference is about a factor of 10. I have no problem spending the $ on the aluminum if it is truly superior, but I know Marelon is quite strong. I'm not an offshore/ heavy weather guy, just typical Florida inshore, coastal, and day sailing. Thanks!

[tkeithlu]

Properly sized and installed, it will make no difference to your operations. The aluminum may be stronger, but the way you attach it is more important than the strength of the material itself. The halyard can't destroy the cleat itself, within broad margins, it can only pull the cleat off the mast when you install it with pop rivets. Use proper stainless steel bolts, through the mast to the other side, and go sailing.

[thinwater]

How do you intend to tension the halyard? Is there a mast-mounted winch? You cannot just hoist and cleat.


Jammers are nice because you can winch through the jammer with it 1/2 closed, holding tension. Without a jammer, it must stay on the winch.

[roadrunner65]

thinwater,
It actually hoists relatively easily. I was going to install a Schaefer "jam" cleat. I'd finish cranking the sail up with a cabin top winch, then quickly release the clutch and jam the halyard and cleat it off. 2 person job, I know, but the sail never gets taken down as it's on a furler. I also thought of adding a small cam cleat between the halyard exit from the mast and the horn cleat, to hold the tension while I cleat off the halyard.


tkeithlu,


I've never heard of through bolting through the mast to the other side. I know Catalina has never done it. I wasn't planning on rivets, just the properly sized stainless bolts, tapped, and coated with Tef-Gel. Again, not doing any offshore sailing on this boat. We're 15 knots of wind kind of sailors. How common is it that this is done?

[JBP]

You can probably sweat the halyard without any need for the winch.

[tkeithlu]

I almost made the suggestion that JBP did graphically. If you keep the triangle shallow, you can put a whopping tension in the rope. That's freshman engineering.

Can you get to the inside of the mast to get nuts onto the ends of the bolts? If so, that would be just fine. A little blue Locktite or comparable would be a help. I didn't think you were going to use rivets, I just said that for contrast. But then there might be someone out there...

[roadrunner65]

Nope, no way of getting any nuts in there. It would be just the machine screws in the aluminum. This is how Catalina installed the existing spar fittings that are already on the boat, so I'm guessing they believe that for coastal cruising, it is sufficient. Agree with "sweating the halyard" technique. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to the the sail all the way up doing just that.

[tkeithlu]

So, drill and tap the wall of the mast? Say you use a 1/4 by 28 fine thread bolt. I'd want a wall at least 0.20" in order to get five or six threads. Any less than that in aluminum? Ouch. I'd start considering stainless steel rivet nuts at that point- they grip like toggle bolts on the back side (inside the mast).

Here's a collection of SS rivet nuts:


https://www.amazon.com/30PCs-Stainle...28QQ&srpt=NUTS

and here's the tool:

https://www.amazon.com/THINKWORK-Set...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I'm concerned that I'm complicating your life, when you asked about cleats, not how to attach them, and I understand that you're not setting out on a circumnavigation. I just like to see a job done right, and I've got a nagging feeling that Catalina may have cut some corners here.

[Mike Burch]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

So, drill and tap the wall of the mast? Say you use a 1/4 by 28 fine thread bolt. I'd want a wall at least 0.20" in order to get five or six threads. Any less than that in aluminum? Ouch. I'd start considering stainless steel rivet nuts at that point- they grip like toggle bolts on the back side (inside the mast).

Here's a collection of SS rivet nuts:


https://www.amazon.com/30PCs-Stainle...28QQ&srpt=NUTS

and here's the tool:

https://www.amazon.com/THINKWORK-Set...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I'm concerned that I'm complicating your life, when you asked about cleats, not how to attach them, and I understand that you're not setting out on a circumnavigation. I just like to see a job done right, and I've got a nagging feeling that Catalina may have cut some corners here.

+1 for rivnuts. They do require a special tool to set them, but it's cheap enough. I would use an aluminium rivnut, on the grounds that when the stainless bolt eventually starts to rot the aluminium it will be the rivnut and not the mast that suffers. At that point it's dead easy to drill out the rivnut and fit a new one (they're dirt cheap).

[Jim Cate]

If the mast wall is thick enough that the factory installed bits (which he says are screwed in place) then I'd say the same would be true for the cleat. Obviously not the very best method, but good enough.

Jim

[Patrigo]

Rivnuts. Having discovered them about five years ago, I have used nothing else in similar situations, they are a great development. No need for a special tool to set them, just use a flat bar with a hole in it, to stop the rivnut from rotating as you tighten it.

[roadrunner65]

Rivnuts. Brilliant! I believe we have a solution! Thanks all for the great info