My in-mast furling is a nightmare

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sepharad

Actually,


The owner sailed it for 4 months each year, prior to his death in about 2018. While he must have had issues (based on his note) he nonetheless did all the tricks and got it to work.


Everything is original, but meticulously maintained. Sails were cleaned and stored in a heated sail loft each winter. Mast in a mast house. Put on land etc. etc.


The dock lines need replacing BUT...he had a full new set in storage. Everything but the hull was in storage each winter.


If the upgrade parts are available I may get them. If not I will try a servicing. I have all the original documents for the
-Kemp Reefin' and Reefin' + models.
-Hints and Advice,Selden updating of Kemp Drum Reefin Systems,
-Conversion of Kemp Reefin' R232/126 to furlin RB Mk2,
-Kemp Reefin' masts and Reefin' Plus.


(any and all I am happy to share and thank you for your link.)



Something has clearly gone wrong internally. Possibly when trucked from Denmark to Spain.

I will be taking it one step at a time.

The Selden RB Mk2 is one of the best in-mast furling systems around -- bulletproof. If you can convert it, then you will be fine. Selden is pretty good about stocking old parts. Call them in Gotheburg.


2018 was 5 years ago, and no mechanism like this will be usable after 5 years of storage, however well-maintained it may look superficially.


If I were you I would pull the mast, and pull out the gearbox and foil and all the bearings, clean up everything, replace everything with any wear, regulate and lubricate everything.


Have a pro rigger set up the rig properly.


And for God's sake, have a new sail made.


P.S. Just saw the Selden doc on conversion: https://support.seldenmast.com/files/595-750-E.pdf. So what you have doesn't even have a gearbox. Yes, you want to convert this by all means and I'm sure you can find the parts.



After all the miles I've put on my boat, I had to rebuild the gearbox on my system this summer, which I did in Malmo, Sweden by an ex Selden factory guy. A whole new gearbox (and this is on a much larger model than yours) would have been only €1000. As it was, I replaced all the bearings and races.

[Pete7]

Sounds like a plan. I only grease ours through the slot, but you may need to take the mast down and see if you need to take the top plate off to extract it and really give it a good clean or replace the bearings.

Plan on doing the genoa furling system whilst you are at it, but these tend to be easier, just a case of cleaning out the foil tracks and grease in the bearings.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Sounds like a plan. I only grease ours through the slot, but you may need to take the mast down and see if you need to take the top plate off to extract it and really give it a good clean or replace the bearings.

Plan on doing the genoa furling system whilst you are at it, but these tend to be easier, just a case of cleaning out the foil tracks and grease in the bearings.

Pete

You need the masthead truck off to get the foil out. So you really want to have the mast out. On a boat that size it's not a big deal.


Don't neglect to maintain all your furlers. It really sucks when the bearings seize on these for lack of maintenance. At least every two years, and more often if you sail a lot, they need to come apart in a white spirits bath, totally clean everything, inspect for wear, replace anything which needs it, reassemble with the right kind of waterproof grease (I just use the Selden grease).

[sailcrazy]

We sail an older(1989) Taswell, with an in-mast furling system. We, too, had frequent "problems" with pulling the sail out. After sailing with it for some 15 years, it jammed departing Athens, Greece., and as we tried to force it out (and in-either way), something finally "let go" with a loud bang, and the sail came down. Turned out the top swivel had a series of bearings in it, and 2 of them froze (until we broke them pulling the sail out). A local rigger quickly IDed the problem, found replacement ball bearings, and repaired the swivel in a day.
Since that issue, in 2014, it has worked flawlessly/perfectly/without issue. Before you jump thru expensive hoops.....check your top swivel. And yes, a new, synthetic mainsail can also make a big difference! We sail, just the 2 of us, and would not be without it-sailhandling/trimming is so much easier!

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by sepharad

I have a Kemp Reefin'+ in-mast roller furling "system", This is the predecessor of the Selden line.

In a nutshell it gets stuck and took 2 men 1+ hour of non-stop wrestling to get the sail out. Once refurled it is stuck again.

Selden had a replacement gearbox and tensioned luffspar upgrade which I have a Selden Rep looking for in Spain.

If parts are NOT available, is it possible to turn it into a Hanked on mast?

Thanks

When your main starts getting tangled in the mast it means the sail is stretched (bagged) such that it rolls over on itself. You might get an additional season if you have it recut. In mast sails must be perfectly flat, no sewn in shape. We did a recut that lasted into the second season when we replaced it with a North 3DI.

If these are the symptoms its not the furler. Fix the sail or you will be cutting it out with a rigging knife from a bosons chair.

[lornolsen]

I had a Nautical 60 with inmast furling. For 3 years I fought it and took 2 men to get it out or in. I finally called a shipwright in Norfolk. Within 15 minutes he diagnosed the problem as the bearing on the bottom. He had one made at a machine shop and the problem was solved the sail went in and out very easily. I had thought the problem was at the top at 72' and had therefore left it alone but I was wrong. What an easy fix for someone that knew what they were doing.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

When your main starts getting tangled in the mast it means the sail is stretched (bagged) such that it rolls over on itself. You might get an additional season if you have it recut. In mast sails must be perfectly flat, no sewn in shape. We did a recut that lasted into the second season when we replaced it with a North 3DI.

If these are the symptoms its not the furler. Fix the sail or you will be cutting it out with a rigging knife from a bosons chair.

A "perfectly flat" sail would be close to useless for anything except downwind. A roller furling sail needs to have the RIGHT shape, and the right shape is most certainly NOT "perfectly flat"! While it is true that most roller furling sails have less draft added with broad seaming, they all have a positive roach on the LUFF that puts draft in the sail, and is essential to an efficient airfoil shape. Most sailors pay no attention, to halyard tension on a roller furling rig, but it is still a really important tool to maximizing the shape of the sail in changing wind strengths.

If you are hauling a conventional sail up a track, and it is stretched and baggy, it will heel the boat more, not point as high, and have all kinds of other performance issues, but it will go up and down without issue. The boat will become less and less capable, but you can keep using the sail until it falls apart.

Once a roller furling sail starts to stretch and get baggy, it absolutely does become a real nightmare to unroll cleanly. This really is not a downside to roller furling, since when sail gets to that point it is WELL past time to replace it anyway.

[s/v Jedi]

Every post is a clear demonstration of why to stay away from in-mast furling, even though after listing all the hardships, danger and costs as the result of their furler, they now swear by it

[OneBoatman]

After Ted Hood invented the roller furler for headsails, he invented the stowaway main system. Early on they didn't have custom extruded masts that could capture the sail. For people that wanted the feature a full length apendage was riveted to the after section to capture the sail. Most of the masts I've seen with stoway have a full length track adjacent to the central slot for rigging a conventional mainsail or storm trysail. The Selden system is highly reliable. You must honor certain things for them to perform as they should:
Not much pre-bend in mast.
A properly cut mainsail with very little or preferably no roach.
Prefers at least some tension on the leach by way of the topping lift.
Come into the wind or just off the wind as with a conventional main.
Light tension on the outhaul as you draw it in.
Battenless mains do best as this is viewed as a cruising convenience.
Do not attempt to furl when off the wind as the sail tends to bunch up and possibly jam.

[Siberian Sea]

Most everything is great until it’s not and this includes in mast furling. Years ago when I first became aware of these systems I wanted one. Although I’ve never owned one I sailed several vessels with them I have changed my mind. I’m going to stay with the old venerable slab reefing as it seems to always work just fine. I’m sorry for the troubles with your system and as we all do we are hoping soon your going to find a viable solution, best to you.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

We sail an older(1989) Taswell, with an in-mast furling system. We, too, had frequent "problems" with pulling the sail out. After sailing with it for some 15 years, it jammed departing Athens, Greece., and as we tried to force it out (and in-either way), something finally "let go" with a loud bang, and the sail came down. Turned out the top swivel had a series of bearings in it, and 2 of them froze (until we broke them pulling the sail out). A local rigger quickly IDed the problem, found replacement ball bearings, and repaired the swivel in a day.
Since that issue, in 2014, it has worked flawlessly/perfectly/without issue. Before you jump thru expensive hoops.....check your top swivel. And yes, a new, synthetic mainsail can also make a big difference! We sail, just the 2 of us, and would not be without it-sailhandling/trimming is so much easier!

Hot tip. The top bearing is hard to reach and is often neglected. And is often the source of problems.


Fundamental to using ANY kind of furling system (not just in-mast) is to regularly inspect and maintain ALL the bearings.


The other tip about the sail is also extremely important. In-mast furling simply won't work with a baggy dacron sail.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by OneBoatman

. . . Battenless mains do best as this is viewed as a cruising convenience.. . .

One data point -- I've had great luck with vertical battens and my Selden in-mast furling system. Makes a big difference with the shape of the sail, and has caused zero problems with furling.


Only drawback is you have to take them out whenever you drop the sail, and put them back in when you hoist it -- a fair bit of work with a 23 meter mast and corresponding sized sail.


We've done very well racing with this setup, beating a lot of boats with full batten mainsails.


I have a straight leech, but I'm hearing more and more that people are doing fine with some roach:





That's an HR with a full carbon in-mast rig. Look at the sail shape!

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

One data point --

Attachment 280144


That's an HR with a full carbon in-mast rig. Look at the sail shape!

That's a good looking sail with some roach. Tell me again its an in mast furling system. Its a pretty good trick to roll up that headboard.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

That's a good looking sail with some roach. Tell me again its an in mast furling system. Its a pretty good trick to roll up that headboard.

Yes, amazing! But also how the clew uses an attachment that goes around the boom, aft of the strap that holds a main sheet block! HR got it figured out but how do they do it?

[SV-Viento]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yes, amazing! But also how the clew uses an attachment that goes around the boom, aft of the strap that holds a main sheet block! HR got it figured out but how do they do it?

OK HR fan here. But I would also add the HR system, is really a HR, Selden, Elvstrøm system. Take home message for me from theads like this is that many systems work great as long as they are maintained and used properly.

Lots of great photos of mast, boom, sails here.
https://www.hallberg-rassy.com/yacht...-rassy-50#c838

To the OP. I’ll add a vote to pulling the mast disassembling and meticulously repairing, replacing and reassembling the system.