My removable inner stay(solent) installation and sail plan.

[Scubaseas]

Or something like this

[hamburking]

The Albin Vega is a great boat, and an excellent choice for sailing with no limits. Well done on choosing the right boat.

I've recently been learning all about the solent rig. In the search for my next boat, I found locally a SAGA 35. It has the double headstays (factory built). The forward stay goes to a short bow sprit and holds a big genoa. The inner fore stay holds a small, SELF TACKING jib.

As a solo sailor, I see the solent rig as ideal. Tacking off a lee shore in a big wind, as suggested earlier in this thread, would be greatly simplified. Tacking would be no more than turning the wheel, and good sail shape would be retained. Trying to tack a large jib, repeatedly, quickly, and alone could lead to exhaustion, or even disaster, even if half furled. And a half furled jib won't have a great shape. But there is still a big jib available when the wind is right, like a passage in the trade winds. And all this without leaving the cockpit.

However, the Albin Vega is a small boat, so making it overly complex may be unnecessary. I live in a windy area. I've found that simply having a small jib on the furler (100%) meant I could sail with a full jib most of the time. Even in a big wind, I would double reef the main and set the full jib. And when the wind was light...well...I'd just go a little slower and enjoy the weather. IMHO, there are lots of racers and fair weather sailors who carry huge jibs on their furlers...150%, 170%, etc. These guys seem to enjoy sailing on their sides, going sideways, showing us their keels. Personally, I like to sail, and 100% jib is big enough around here, most days.

[littledevil]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

PM me for a PDF or give me a day or so to figure out how to send it. Or look in my gallery



You essentially need to transfer the tack to the hull, not the deck.



I have a "slutter" set up on my Pearson that is as in my posts .Had it up in over 60 knots and no issues. Bat sails better in 30 kts with slutter storm jib and two reefs than in 15 knots ad full main and 130 genoa.



You're on the right track but need to beef up the gear mountings.


Also look at Marjah's "Sailing theory and practice" to keep your center of effort in the right spot.

I am getting ready to lay up the boat for the season. I was at marina today, spend some time checking the new set up. The tang seems to be the most abvious weak link. The way the aluminum channel bar firmly sits on the hull joints gives me confidence but i also looked around to see if it can be further tied to somewhere solid. I am aware that the all components must be "inline" with each other so either a "U" shaped bow eye(if it falls in line with the rest of the system) or i can try to glass in a U shape attachment point at the inside of the chain locker. This will not be through bolted so not sere if i can construct something relly strong.

[littledevil]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

This exacty.



Monel or stainless might work OK Check Hanson Rivet and Supply.



If you ever have the mast down you might be able to backing plates inside the mast and through bolts.

Out of curiosity;
I never thought its possible to access incade of a mast to place backing plates. How do they do that?
One more thing is that if i decide to go on a different route, how can i handle the holes that i have drilled for the( 5/16 inch 8 holes in total for the tang) leave em alone or maybe look into if they cen be fill with welding or maybe brazing(never done any of this before but welded steel using MIG and fluxcore.

[littledevil]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

Or something like this

In my case, the attachment point for the stay is located more forward.

[Scubaseas]

Some spars have removable mastheads.


Just fill unused holes with aluminum rivets. Or stainless or monel with tefgel.


The way you have it now you are puling the deck up from the hull. Might be fine, might not. Usually you want the load transferred to the hull. A knee glassed in with two or three layers of 2410 or 1808 can be incredibly strong and not needing through bolts.



Bondo "Kitty Hair" has little strength. Might be sort of OK in compression though but not my first choice on a boat. Or car for that matter.

[littledevil]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

Some spars have removable mastheads.


Just fill unused holes with aluminum rivets. Or stainless or monel with tefgel.


The way you have it now you are puling the deck up from the hull. Might be fine, might not. Usually you want the load transferred to the hull. A knee glassed in with two or three layers of 2410 or 1808 can be incredibly strong and not needing through bolts.



Bondo "Kitty Hair" has little strength. Might be sort of OK in compression though but not my first choice on a boat. Or car for that matter.

The mast head is welded.
Thank you for your time and i don't want to sound like i am insisting on the strength of the deck attachment but just want to make sure. The second post on on this thread, 4th pic. shows the bar laying across. As you would notice the hull has that lip, the bar is attached to. Based on this, can we still say that the the pulling forces of the stay is on the deck? I was under impression that my design would load the hull.
The idea of glassing in a knee is doable, although i need to find a way not to foul the anchor chain inside the locker. The temps. around here dipping the 30s wednesday. Working with chemicals probably will have to wait till spring.
Ohh the kitty hair. The surface wasn't flat, there was a little hump between the mid section of the deck and the hull joint. So to even out the difference, i used the kitty. It really helped while drilling the holes since it was glued where it supposed to allowing me to drill holes accurately.

[littledevil]

Originally Posted by hamburking

The Albin Vega is a great boat, and an excellent choice for sailing with no limits. Well done on choosing the right boat.

I've recently been learning all about the solent rig. In the search for my next boat, I found locally a SAGA 35. It has the double headstays (factory built). The forward stay goes to a short bow sprit and holds a big genoa. The inner fore stay holds a small, SELF TACKING jib.

As a solo sailor, I see the solent rig as ideal. Tacking off a lee shore in a big wind, as suggested earlier in this thread, would be greatly simplified. Tacking would be no more than turning the wheel, and good sail shape would be retained. Trying to tack a large jib, repeatedly, quickly, and alone could lead to exhaustion, or even disaster, even if half furled. And a half furled jib won't have a great shape. But there is still a big jib available when the wind is right, like a passage in the trade winds. And all this without leaving the cockpit.

However, the Albin Vega is a small boat, so making it overly complex may be unnecessary. I live in a windy area. I've found that simply having a small jib on the furler (100%) meant I could sail with a full jib most of the time. Even in a big wind, I would double reef the main and set the full jib. And when the wind was light...well...I'd just go a little slower and enjoy the weather. IMHO, there are lots of racers and fair weather sailors who carry huge jibs on their furlers...150%, 170%, etc. These guys seem to enjoy sailing on their sides, going sideways, showing us their keels. Personally, I like to sail, and 100% jib is big enough around here, most days.

Thank you, i love my vega. It is the "forever" boat for me unless i hit a lottary anyway. It was a bit hard to find compared to catalina 22(ex boat). Purchased without actually seeing it, took a flight to Colorado(from NY) and tow her back home. Nice diesel inboard etc. No regret.
I liked the solent too because a bit more simpicity without the running backstays.
Here, we sail inland in a river but i would like to set her up for more challenging conditions and take her to ocean eventually. Bahamas, Caribbean one day i am hoping.
We have very light wind in the river and the gnarly sailing happens occasionally when there is a storm. Those days, most rec. boats stays on their moorings but recently i started heading out thanks to the new additions such as reefing system and lazy jacks. Imagine you head out and you have no way of shortening the sails. That was me while ago. So with this improvements i see a big return and i start to enjoy it more, therefore trying to tweak it more. I see what you are saing K.I.S.S

[Suijin]

If this your forever boat I would definitely reengineer both top and bottom.

Remember both are going to subject to cyclic loads, continuously while a sail is up. I would not trust the tang *at all* regardless of what fasteners you use. Stays, shouds etc should *always* be secured with a suitable through bolt in a situation like this as anything else will have a propensity to work loose.

The suggested equipment from rigging only, while expensive, could save you a much bigger bill if you have a failure.

As far as the bottom goes, you really don't want to be stressing the hull deck joint if you can at all avoid it.

[ferrailleur]

Related topic:

Hi,
I'm working on an removable inner forestay for my 85 Catalina 27. It would support an hanck on staysail to be used wit my double reefed main when I keep my 150 genoa furled.
My tack attachment for forestay and halyard would be just aft of anchor well just above the Vberth, I was planning to use a double folding pad eye with a large backing plate underneath stretching the whole width of the Vberth top at that point.
Like someone said the deck is not made for such a pulling force.
Any helpful comment welcome.
Thanks

[littledevil]

Hi. Check out the sketch and try something like that. See if u can tie it to the chain locker bulkhead. I did not have this options and installed it with the idea that the pulling force is being transferred to the hull. I may need to improve a bit further in spring, so if you are starting from scratch, wait untill you are certain that its ok. The way you described, you are just using a huge backing plate under the deck.

[Disailor]

One way: Since the upper tang is two mirror image pieces, set it in place while bolted together & carefully mark the holes & drill one size (1/16) larger. I would then cut a slot in the mast then tip one in & secure it with one fastener. Slide the other in, bolt them together & add a 2d fastener (NOT poprivets-tapped for machine screw). Drill, tap & install remaining screws. A lot of work.


Here's another idea: two 1" (or more) wide stainless straps wrapped around the mast & fastened (rivets OK here). To isolate the stainless from the mast I've had good results with this technique: Heat the metal with a heat gun then drape a piece of 10mil plastic on it. The plastic (almost any kind) will fuse to the metal.

[pmagistro]

Originally Posted by Disailor

One way: Since the upper tang is two mirror image pieces, set it in place while bolted together & carefully mark the holes & drill one size (1/16) larger. I would then cut a slot in the mast then tip one in & secure it with one fastener. Slide the other in, bolt them together & add a 2d fastener (NOT poprivets-tapped for machine screw). Drill, tap & install remaining screws. A lot of work.

I did exactly that on the solent install on my Bristol 29.9 last year. It was really difficult to line up the holes and while it ended up working out the work felt a bit sloppy. Didn't help to be swinging in circles at the top of the mast on the mooring with a toolbag at my side.

No photos of the tang unfortunately but here is the deck level install.

"Solent stay installation on s/v Tanager. This removeable inner forestay lets us fly hank on sails, in the event that we want to use a storm jib without taking the genoa off the roller furler, fly a smaller working jib than our 135% genoa, or fly two headsails wing and wing when sailing dead downwind.

Just below the masthead the stay and its halyard are attached to the mast with a Wichard Babystay tang. The stay itself is made of 1/4" Amsteel, and terminated with a Colligo Terminator fitting. The tensioning line is Warpspeed, stripped through the 4:1 and covered to work on the mast winch. Low friction rings and soft shackles spliced out of 1/8" Amsteel form the lower end of the tensioning system, which is fixed to the stem fitting with a hefty captive halyard shackle. A quick shackle is spliced in there as well to accept the tack of the hank-on sail.

We ran both the Yankee and the storm jib up this morning and it seems to work well. Nothing like finishing up a big project just before leaving the country!"

[Matt Johnson]

There seems to be some confusion on how the mast tang is installed. You do it as someone listed above:

1) bolt it together
2) mark the 8 holes on the mast
3) drill holes
4) cut slot in mast (put stress relief drill holes on top and bottom of slot)
5) insert one side of tang in mast
6) insert other side of tang in mast
7) bolt tangs together
8) hold the tang up to the holes drilled in mast
9) rivet or machine screw in place (we tapped the tang and through bolted)

It's an easy job. The forward part of the mast is typically a very strong part of the extrusion, and the ears of the tang- being inside the mast- offer a lot area to spread out any pull. The 8 rivets/bolts are doing little to hold the thing in place.

Here are two photos from when we installed the Wichard 9150 tang in our Sabre 34. Edit- just looked back in my notes- I used one from Sparcraft and not Wichard... it was $20 cheaper

Matt