Need tips for splicing double braided dyneema?

[andreas.mehlin]

Originally Posted by Benz

One thing to make sure of is that you're giving yourself some cover slack before you start the splice. This ensures that there's enough cover as it fattens up going over the splice bury. General rule is that if there was enough slack to get the cover back to there you want it, there will be a little slack you have to milk back toward the end. We call it the "Cheat," and for half inch rope it's usually about six inches.
If you forgot to give yourself any cheat, milk some cover slack back up from the far end of the rope so you can get the splice in, then milk it firmly back down after.
Don't be afraid to hammer, but do have a good smooth surface to hammer on that won't harm the rope, and use a nylon-tipped hammer. Heavy is good.

The thing is I have felt I have more slack to milk towards the splice when I have that last inch and a half left. But the throat is getting bigger and steel hard so just don't manage to milk it over to the splice/eye.

[SaltyMetals]

Braid on braid is a challenge. i have not tried dyneema braid-on-braid but what i have found that for a standard braid-on-braid polyesther the Brian Toss Splicing wand is heaps easier that using a FID. Stop and think about it. A FID needs the FID itself to be passed inside a core or a sheath, IN ADDITION TO the thickness of the length you are trying to insert into the core/sheath. On the other hand the Brian Toss splicing wand PULLS the core/sheath through without adding extra diameter inside. Last time i tried to do an eye-splice with a FID the whole thing got stuck inside 12mm rope and it was impossible to go either forwards or back so i had to do a cesarean on the sheath to recover my FID.
Andrew

[sailboatboy]

try using some dish soap to the cover to be buried, as well as persuasion from a soft tipped hammer

[flee27]

side question for the experienced ones.

I don't have much experience splicing. Could I get some opinions on what I should buy as a learn to splice kit. Some tools, different types of rope that is commonly used. Obviously one type should be HMPE or the like.

Thanks for any input.

Foster

[CLady]

You can use personal lubricant and a rubber mallet to work it the last bit. 'Takes some perseverance.

[FabioC]

It is unclear at what phase of the splice you are having problems...

Are you having problems milking it? If so, there is no great secret... hammer it and bend it back and forth to loose the fibers and then pull brute force. With some ropes, it does require some truly brute force, but actually dyneema core is not even the worst of all... But yes, use a winch if needed to apply some serious pull.

If instead you are having problems pulling core or cover through to make the splice, the "secret" is in the fid. I think there is an ongoing conspiracy by the rope manufacturers and the rigging professionals who want to get some good laughs at the expenses of the rest of us, common mortals, who like to splice their own rope: the so-called "recommended" fids are a joke (I got so frustrated once in making a splice with a "recommended" fid that I went to the pro who recommended it and challenged him to make one with that fid. Well, he failed as well) and, as others have said, the videos are done using very soft and giving ropes (the samson videos are almost offensive, they use very big, soft, supple ropes and splice gigantic eyes that require no effort whatsoever...).

Hint, the most effective fids to pull core inside a cover that has no give are not the usual hollow ones...Also, the key is to be able to attach the core to the fid very securely (so you can pull like hell without the core separating in the middle of the bury) without creating extra bulk (so it minimizes friction). I ended up building my own fid, it is not too difficult (and much, much easier that trying to pull a splice using the "wrong" fid)

[thunderhoof]

I have done a core-only splice with the cover pulled to the point where the spliced loop starts, then whipped with a few anchor stitches over the last 1-2 cm of cover. Then I use the loop for a luggage tag splice to an open shackle. This works very well with halyard shackles partly because it makes for a very compact splice at the top of the sail. Dyneema is rugged in UV and weather exposure so having the end bit uncovered should be no problem if there is little chafe.
When splicing to a typical snap shackle I start a double brain splice but I do not attempt to bury the cover tail under the cover or core. After working the cover to the start of the eye pull the cover tail tight around the eye so there is no core showing and then trim and heat seal the tail so about 3 cm is remaining. Then whip and anchor stitch so the jacket tail is covered. Almost all the strength of high-tech double braid is in the core so line strength is maintained.
If you have not found good fids look up Selma and D-Splicer products.

[captlloyd]

I may have missed it but as I often say, YouTube is your friend. James on the “ Sailing Zingaro” site gives a very good primer on working with Dyneema. Others too.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

Braid on braid is a challenge. i have not tried dyneema braid-on-braid but what i have found that for a standard braid-on-braid polyesther the Brian Toss Splicing wand is heaps easier that using a FID. Stop and think about it. A FID needs the FID itself to be passed inside a core or a sheath, IN ADDITION TO the thickness of the length you are trying to insert into the core/sheath. On the other hand the Brian Toss splicing wand PULLS the core/sheath through without adding extra diameter inside. Last time i tried to do an eye-splice with a FID the whole thing got stuck inside 12mm rope and it was impossible to go either forwards or back so i had to do a cesarean on the sheath to recover my FID.
Andrew

The OP is way past the fid by this point--the fid is no longer in the equation. This is just the last little bit of cover that needs to slide over the fattest part of the splice where the buried cover tail is adding bulk. Pulling on a winch is a big help, and when the winch maxes out you can twang the line violently sideways, which generates a lot of force. Sometimes you have to alternate between winching and milking/hammering several times.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by FabioC

It is unclear at what phase of the splice you are having problems...

Are you having problems milking it? If so, there is no great secret... hammer it and bend it back and forth to loose the fibers and then pull brute force. With some ropes, it does require some truly brute force, but actually dyneema core is not even the worst of all... But yes, use a winch if needed to apply some serious pull.

If instead you are having problems pulling core or cover through to make the splice, the "secret" is in the fid. I think there is an ongoing conspiracy by the rope manufacturers and the rigging professionals who want to get some good laughs at the expenses of the rest of us, common mortals, who like to splice their own rope: the so-called "recommended" fids are a joke (I got so frustrated once in making a splice with a "recommended" fid that I went to the pro who recommended it and challenged him to make one with that fid. Well, he failed as well) and, as others have said, the videos are done using very soft and giving ropes (the samson videos are almost offensive, they use very big, soft, supple ropes and splice gigantic eyes that require no effort whatsoever...).

Hint, the most effective fids to pull core inside a cover that has no give are not the usual hollow ones...Also, the key is to be able to attach the core to the fid very securely (so you can pull like hell without the core separating in the middle of the bury) without creating extra bulk (so it minimizes friction). I ended up building my own fid, it is not too difficult (and much, much easier that trying to pull a splice using the "wrong" fid)

I use both pull fids (I make my own out of welding rod or leader wire), and the plain fids made by Samson or Yale. I can't imagine having to splice with only one sort, since different splices and ropes require different tools. You just have to get comfortable with what works well for you. For poly double braid, I always use the recommended fid, since the measurements are printed or etched on it already.

[slug]

Yah , I like pullers good addition to your rigging bag

On old or particularly obnoxious rope covers you must unlay the braid and literally pull the strands in one by one

[walkabout08]

Save your self some headaches and use a brummel eye on the dyneema core so you can bury the end without the cover; much easier. Take an appropriate length of cover and thread it onto the eye before the brummel if you need the added abrasion protection of the cover. Look for whipping instructions to terminate the cover which should be short of the eye splice.
Good luck!

[Looking4Neptune]

I don't want to derail this thread, but does anyone have recommendations on a book for splicing?
thanks
Pat
SV Calista, 2010 Leopard 46