New blocks for my Beneteau 411: which ones?

[Safc]

Hello All,

It's time to replace almost all the blocks on my beneteau 411.

Current blocks are all "HYE" (I think these are original since 2002).
When looking up these blocks it seems they extremely strong (on paper):

Singel block with swivel

Breaking loads are double if you compare them with Harken carbo blocks. . .
Thoughts ?

Which blocks do you have on your beneteau 411 and are you satisfied with them ?

I need about 14 new blocks (incl spares)... I hope not too spent more than 500 dollar, but the blocks should be capable of crossing an ocean.

(I am not racing; don't need the best blocks, just safe, functional and strong blocks)

Suggestions ?


Brgds,

Safc

[MarkJ]

Buy the Beneteau blocks!

They have made/used them for a reason.

I had to replace the final lower mainsheet block and did so with $130 of Harken and on the last passage it exploded and EVERY part of it went overboard. I. E. The roller, chassis and the pin/shackle end. How could all of it disappear? It must have been far, far overloaded.

I replaced the block with a shackle - yes just a shackle - and it's fine. I will get a new Beneteau block...


Mark

[UNCIVILIZED]

Blocks with good bearings are usually worth the money. And the linked ones only have bushings, not true bearings. Meaning roller or ball bearings.
Frankly, I'm a big Harken fan. Great products, & outstanding customer service. They're always happy to talk to you & field your questions when you call them. That said, I've not used their Carbo Blocks. Rather, primarily Big Boat stuff. Though there are a lot of good blocks out there. Garhauer for example, & some other brands too.
But again, get blocks with good bearings, otherwise you'll forever suffer from excessive friction in your lines, & you might as well just use low friction rings instead. Which, such are a good option for lines which don't get adjusted much.

[Vasco]

My B393 came with what appear to be Lewmar blocks. They looked like the cheapest going. Like many 393 owners I replaced all of them with Garhauer blocks. Excellent blocks at a reasonable ( cheaper than most) price.

[svHyLyte]

You cannot do better than Garhauer Marine Hardware for functionality, strength or durability. Moreover, in the unlikely event that you have a problem, the Company absolutely stands behind its equipment. We replaced all of the blocks on our FIrst 42 with Garhauer equipment in 2002 and they are still going strong and working very well with only routine maintenance despite being worked hard and, occasionally, put away wet.

FWIW...

[Stumble]

Garhauer blocks really aren't that cheap, and they really aren't that good. They are about middling on efficiency and actually on the high end of cost.

Which ones to buy just depends on which block you need to replace. Karver probably makes the best and strongest going but they can be expensive. Switching to low friction rings instead of blocks is a great idea some places but you need to switch to uncoated dyneema lines to really make them work well. For just standard stuff I always default to Harken, they have consistently made the best, and their customer service is amazing.

[nigel1]

I have a French built bene 473.
The blocks are bog standard with bushes rather than roller bearings, and supplied by Z-Spars.
The boat is 2001 built. I have replaced one block, I just got a replacement from Z-Spars, same as the original.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by nigel1

The boat is 2001 built. I have replaced one block, I just got a replacement from Z-Spars, same as the original.

Thee ya go! One replacement since 2001.

That's furickin value!

😊

[DameGravey]

Originally Posted by Safc

Breaking loads are double if you compare them with Harken carbo blocks. . .

Be careful comparing load ratings. Some suppliers talk in Breaking Loads,, others in Maximum Working Loads or even Safe Working load..
If you weighed 90 kilos would you be happy climbing a mast with equpment that was rated with a 100 kilo breaking strain?

[Safc]

Originally Posted by DameGravey

Be careful comparing load ratings. Some suppliers talk in Breaking Loads,, others in Maximum Working Loads or even Safe Working load..
If you weighed 90 kilos would you be happy climbing a mast with equpment that was rated with a 100 kilo breaking strain?

I am well aware of the difference between BL, SWL, WLL, PL, MSL etc. due to the nature of my job :-)

That's exactly why I mentioned it... It seems the HYE blocks have a way bigger BL than other blocks of the same diameter. . .
Just wondering if their data is correct.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Safc

I am well aware of the difference between BL, SWL, WLL, PL, MSL etc. due to the nature of my job :-)

That's exactly why I mentioned it... It seems the HYE blocks have a way bigger BL than other blocks of the same diameter. . .
Just wondering if their data is correct.

HYE is tested by Lloyds so I have no doubt about their data. But they really aren't the same. HYE uses plain bearings while every other manufacturer of blocks uses rollers or ball bearings. This means a massive difference in friction. The HYE's are stronger, but far, far less efficient.

The flip side is that because they use a shaft as the bearing surface plain bearing blocks can be made much stronger than other designs. And are much cheaper.

So how much does this lost effiency mean? It really just depends, on a single foot block maybe not much but on a cascade or single line reeling system with multiple blocks in the line it could be substantial.

High quality bearing blocks add about 10% friction loss to the system, but it is multiplicative so if you need to pull in a line with a 200lb load with one block then figure you need to exert 220lbs. Plain bearing blocks are about double this friction loss so figure 240lbs of force.

But on a line with 6 blocks like a mainsheet...

200*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1=350 lbs of force
200*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2=597 lbs of force

It starts to add up quickly.

[Scott Berg]

If you want to keep them I've found that Shafer roller bearing blocks are the best I've ever used... cost a shade more than Harken and a bit heavier but amazing build quality and I like buy things once...

[Safc]

Originally Posted by Stumble

HYE is tested by Lloyds so I have no doubt about their data. But they really aren't the same. HYE uses plain bearings while every other manufacturer of blocks uses rollers or ball bearings. This means a massive difference in friction. The HYE's are stronger, but far, far less efficient.

The flip side is that because they use a shaft as the bearing surface plain bearing blocks can be made much stronger than other designs. And are much cheaper.

So how much does this lost effiency mean? It really just depends, on a single foot block maybe not much but on a cascade or single line reeling system with multiple blocks in the line it could be substantial.

High quality bearing blocks add about 10% friction loss to the system, but it is multiplicative so if you need to pull in a line with a 200lb load with one block then figure you need to exert 220lbs. Plain bearing blocks are about double this friction loss so figure 240lbs of force.

But on a line with 6 blocks like a mainsheet...

200*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1=350 lbs of force
200*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2=597 lbs of force

It starts to add up quickly.

Hi Stumble,

This would indeed explain the huge difference in loads.. Thanks for clear info on friction !

Anybody has experience with "Wichard" ?

See Ball bearing blocks / sheave 70 / single / with swivel head

Can buy these 70 mm ball bearing blocks for 47 dollar in France...
A similar Harken block

(Harken Sailboat Hardware and Accessories)

is 83 dollar. And the difference in breaking load is also quit big...

Wichard 70 mm: 2700 kg (5 952 lb)
Harken carbo air block 75 mm: 1650 kg (3638 lb )

!!

Thoughts ?

Brgds,

Safc