One Knot Failed in near Hurricane Force Winds (and other observations)

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Plus, it's a rather enjoyable thing to tie.

It's so simple and straightforward.

When anchoring, I enjoy the restful moment where I tie the snubber on. It's an enjoyable routine and a nice skill to keep fresh for other uses.

I envy you guys. My foredeck is the exclusive domain of the "winch wench" and she won't let me dare step foot up there when she's doing her stuff. Unfortunately, knot tying isn't a qualifying skill for "winch wench" and so we have compromised on a chain hook.


Still, I have it good!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Wasn't it a nice friendly hurricane that did you the courtesy of getting rid of the old small ugly solar panels?

Not small nor ugly but apparently had no right to be and was taken out. New ones a bit beefier

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Agreed. The modified rolling hitch is fantastic. The harder you pull on it the tighter it gets. Like a Chinese finger trap

The spliced loop technique is kind of the same, but doesn't seem to have developed the same amount of grip.

It's been a good test. 13 months without a dock. Been trying these out the whole time to see which I liked better.

We have a winner

and honestly, it’s kind of relaxing and enjoyable to tie the modified rolling hitch whatever it is. I have a diagram of it somewhere I will dig up. Found it. This is what held.

are usually make about five loops where you see three of the tight ones in the diagram. Just for extra grip

That is a camel hitch. Yes, more secure than a rolling hitch, particularly on chain, where a rolling hitch can slip by moving the links around. Weird, but proven in the field and testing.

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One mistake was tying each leg separately. In this way, the knots are pulled at angles they are not intended for. It should have been one knot for both legs. Works fine, even faster, and the bridle will be symmetrical every time.

The second mistake was tying what amounts to a Prusik loop with rope of the same size as the line you are tying to. Every climber knows it must be at least 30% smaller, and for this reason, the loop is normally Dyneema or Spectra/polyester blend. Three turns is best. You can see this in Animated Knots.

The take away is not that the camel hitch is better. If it was climbers would use it.

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The take always are to use only ONE KNOT for both legs, and to tie a Prusik correctly. I have used a Prusik over 60 knots a number of times, rigging some multi-ton loads, and climbing uncountable times. No slip. It should hold without slipping to about 35% of the line breaking strength (that is more than the working load of the rode, so it is enough to break the rope if the rope is fatigued) and works equally well on rope and chain. By the way, the camel hitch slips at about the same tension.

Don't tie a Prusik using a splice. Wrap it with a loop, the way climbers do (Prusik loop), and then clip that to the bridle with suitable carabiners. Very fast and idiot proof.

And as an aside, if you are using rope rode, you don't need a nylon bridle (the rode does the stretching). You will do perfectly well with a Dyneema bridle. The bridle will not distort to one side by stretching and will resist chafe and UV better.

And it is spelled Prusik, because it was invented by Karl Prusik, who was Austrian, not German.


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This has proven suitable for a 34' cat in similar conditions. Up-size as needed. I can attach this in seconds. A locking attachment would be good, but gates opposed is sufficient. The nice thing about wire gates is their corrosion resistance.

[Chotu]

thin: you are a wealth of knowledge but you don’t know anything about the specific situation lol. Sorry. I have to correct so many things from your post.


1) there is nothing wrong with tying two different lines for the bridle. that has nothing at all to do with the situation. They don’t come under pressure until the boat veers to the side that goes under tension. It’s a non-issue here. Knots are pulled nearly parallel with the anchor rode as intended. in fact, not only is it not wrong, it’s better. I have triple redundancy holding my anchor tackle. You have double.

2) My bridle is always symmetrical. That’s not controlled at the rode attachment point. it’s controlled at the deck level on the other ends of the bridle.

3) “Second mistake” (there wasn’t a first and there isn’t a second): Bridle rope is sized down from the anchor rode. anchor rode is 3/4” 3 strand nylon (and 3/8” HT chain) . bridle is 1/2” 3 strand nylon. i’m not going smaller because I kind of need the bridle to not break. 1/2” is plenty small for anchor tackle on this boat. If i have to go tiny tiny, like the ratio in your pic, i want no part of it because it adds complexity.

4) camel hitch (the way i do it with more friction loops) holds through actual hurricanes and obviously out performed the prussik in this nor’easter as seen/executed/documented here. Prussik, while enjoyed by some people (because it easier?) isn’t as good. i have a side by side comparison.

5) if you have to use extra hardware and extra failure points and all of that extra crap to use the prussik, I will never do it again. That’s terrible. Tying the camel hitch is much easier, smarter, less likely to break, and doesn’t require special equipment. So the prussik is a really bad idea actually if it has to be implemented with all that extra stuff. Goes against my entire philosophy of kiss on boats. No thank you

6) it’s kind of a frustrating post because you are just making assumption after assumption after assumption here. Lots of advice but not anything that applies to me or my boat and you’re also criticizing things that you don’t know about. A little bit frustrating. But taking it in stride here. you’re talking to me like I don’t have 30+ years on the water and continuous boat ownership. And more nights spent sleeping at anchor than on land. You’re kind of talking to me like I’m an idiot at the end of this post. It’s frustrating. Trying to take it in stride.

for instance you don’t know about the anchor rode. just more incorrect assumptions. your advice to use a dyneema bridle (a really bad idea… what happens when i’m in shallower water and need the stretch??) which sounds like it’s written to somebody on their first day out on a boat, doesn’t even apply.

100ft chain, 200ft nylon. 110ft deployed. Tidal variation from 4ft deep to 12 ft deep.

Definitely a frustrating post. You’re a good guy. You always have a lot of good information. But this one is a little weird.

Spelling: even going after that? My phone chooses what it chooses. It’s not always correct. In fact it’s often incorrect. going back to edit everything you sometimes miss a few. For example do you know how many times I had to change the word bridal? Comes up like this every time.