Partially furl the Genoa?

[sagablu]

Hello All,

I was sailing this past weekend on my 1976 Pearson 10M in fairly high winds 20+ and gusts a lot higher. I had two reefs in the main and the main sheet was let out but still felt out of control on the gusts.

My genny is 150% so I thought I should furl it in a little. My buddy who is a life long sailor told me not too as my genny was not designed for this. If it was he said, it would have marks on it to indicate 130%, 100%, etc. So the question is, is it safe to furl in a little to reduce power without damaging the genny? Harken roller furler.

Thanks!

[Tetepare]

Of course you can partially furl the genoa! I do it all the time! Relieves stress on the sail and the boat, and allows you to keep more main.

[Fiveslide]

I've heard that before, but I don't believe it and have sailed quite a bit with partially furled headsail, some with marks, some without.

In any case, I'd rather hurt a sail by furling it than hurt a boat and its rig by not furling it. If you think your overpowered, reduce sail, period.

[Paul Elliott]

My genoa has the "I" and "II" reefing marks on it, but I sure don't see any specific reinforcement near those locations. I'm pretty sure that those marks are there for my convenience, so I can easily tell how far I've got it reefed. And I've sailed with it reefed *many* times, sometimes well beyond those marks. The sail shape suffers, but when sailing deep dpwnwind that's not so important.

Of course some sails are specifically designed for reefing, and have bulky foam or rope inserts in the luff. But this is to improve sail shape when reefed, and not for strength. Some roller furling systems have better control of the reefed sail shape as well. My Harken furler has swivels at the head and tack so the sail doesn't get so baggy as it rolls up on the headfoil. Again, this is for sail shape (and it helps), but not for strength.

[alctel]

One thing is that when you partially furl it, your sail shape (and especially pointing ability) go to crap. Less of an issue downwind of course, but it's one of the reasons I went with a 115% for my roller furler

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by alctel

One thing is that when you partially furl it, your sail shape (and especially pointing ability) go to crap. Less of an issue downwind of course, but it's one of the reasons I went with a 115% for my roller furler

Exactly. A large overlapping genoa works terribly when partially furled. The OP's friend is right.

BUT -- that doesn't mean it's not safe to do so. By all means, furl when you need to. Just beware that the sail will work badly, and also, it will stretch it out. You might consider changing to a non-overlapping jib for such conditions, especially if pointing is important to you.

[Don C L]

Roller furling sails are a big trade-off. The sail shape and the fact it is being stressed in unreinforced places and the lighter weight of the sail cloth, are all points that make it less than optimum to furl it partially and keep using it in higher wind speeds. But do it anyway if you need to, smaller than you would think. You may not get such great drive out of it, but it will help provide some and it will provide balance. Or furl it and use a staysail if you are rigged for that.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Yes, you can definitely sail with a partially furled genoa, except in those rare cases of having a furler designed to have the sail either fully rolled up, or fully deployed, with no in between.

That said, at some point, swapping sails is the only thing which makes sense. Such as when the winds freshen in strength considerably, & are forcast to remain at said level for a stretch of time. And they're of a strength when the boat would sail best with a jib in the 85% - 105% range, instead of the 135% that's normally on the furler. Since once you roll a jib in much more than 25% - 30% it's shape & performance go to s**t. Plus it's then operating directly in the lee of a large chunk of rolled up sail, which severely disrupts the air flow over the bit which isn't furled.

Also, operating with a jib that's rolled up by a significan percentage, due to it's poor shape, your heeling moment goess up, along with the drag produced by the sail. And the harder you push a rolled up sail, the worse it is for the sail cloth in the long run.
So then switching from your #1, or #2, to your #3 makes sense. Non?

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Yes, you can definitely sail with a partially furled genoa, except in those rare cases of having a furler designed to have the sail either fully rolled up, or fully deployed, with no in between.

That said, at some point, swapping sails is the only thing which makes sense. Such as when the winds freshen in strength considerably, & are forcast to remain at said level for a stretch of time. And they're of a strength when the boat would sail best with a jib in the 85% - 105% range, instead of the 135% that's normally on the furler. Since once you roll a jib in much more than 25% - 30% it's shape & performance go to s**t. Plus it's then operating directly in the lee of a large chunk of rolled up sail, which severely disrupts the air flow over the bit which isn't furled.

Also, operating with a jib that's rolled up by a significan percentage, due to it's poor shape, your heeling moment goess up, along with the drag produced by the sail. And the harder you push a rolled up sail, the worse it is for the sail cloth in the long run.
So then switching from your #1, or #2, to your #3 makes sense. Non?

Oui, except the 150% genny is have is the only headsail I have. For this boat, my first, I am not likely to invest the funds for a 100% or such. This boat is a 2-3 deal then I am upgrading to something for the long haul.

I appreciate all the helpful suggestions. I suppose I will try furling a bit if the situation arises again. If it doesn't work out I will either sail with the main only or just motor if I have someplace to go. The only reason I was even out was I promised my very helpful friend I would take him and his dad out for fathers day. Otherwise I would have been windsurfing, then 25+ would just fine!

[UNCIVILIZED]

You might consider shopping for a used smaller sail, in good condition. As often they can be had quite reasonably. And many used sail shops allow for an inspection period, & return if you don't find it to be satisfactory. Be they local, or half a continent away.

[sapient sue]

Sagablu

We had a special foam luff inserted in our genoa so that when partially furled a better shape is retained. We have done this to the last 2 genoas we have had made and the system works really well. When it gets up to 18knts we put one reef on the main, above 20knts we put 2 reefs in the main and partially furl the genoa. Above 25knts the genoa is totally furled and we use the stay sail to maintain the balance of the boat.

cheers Sue

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

You might consider shopping for a used smaller sail, in good condition. As often they can be had quite reasonably. And many used sail shops allow for an inspection period, & return if you don't find it to be satisfactory. Be they local, or half a continent away.

Definitely this.

I would not want to spend even one summer on a boat which had no headsail other than a 150% genny. It's just not that useful a sail -- not really any good upwind even in the right wind range, terrible upwind when reefed, lot of drag and heeling moment on a reach when reefed. This is a specialized light wind reaching sail.

If you can carry only one headsail, a 120% is far more useful. With foam luff it will sort of work when reefed. I would get rid of the 150% in case you can carry only one headsail. Or get yourself a used 95% jib and use that as your primary headsail, switching to the 150% for -- light air, reaching.

I am cutter rigged, with 120% yankee, 95% jib, and staysail. I use the 95% jib about 80% of the time. I never reef it -- I furl it and go to the staysail when the wind is too strong to use all of it. I put up the 120% yankee only when I have a lot of miles to go downhill AND in light weather. Even unreefed, it doesn't go upwind as well as the blade.

I go to great lengths to avoid reefing headsails, including aggressive reefing of the main, and on occasion even putting the main away altogether and sailing on full headsail alone.

[roverhi]

In light air areas a 150% is your go to sail and needed for most of the time sailing. Newer tall rigs can get by with a lesser overlap sail but for older boats that large overlapping headsail is the difference between motoring or sailing your summer away. Sailing in SoCal, Long Island Sound or the PNW in the summer is 150% territory.

A good 150% sail is not a sail to beat to weather with large reef rolled in in 40 knots of wind, however. To be really useful needs to be on the light side fabric wise for best performance in lighter winds. You can sail with it deeply furled but not to weather in strong winds if you want it to last. A cross cut dacron sail won't blow up but will get baggy if subjected to higher wind conditions like over 20k regularly. Adding a rope or foam luff will go a long way to getting a decently furled sail down to 120% or so.

Your buddy may be a life long sailor but his reasoning is off the wall for not furling your sail. Have never seen a sail marked with reef points from the maker. The crew that I've seen marked that way were done by the owners. Not to say that a sailmaker wouldn't mark the sail, just the lack of such marking has nothing to do with whether the sail can be roller reefed.

[sagablu]

As it happens I am sailing in the long Island sound and mostly in light wind. I am usually as fast or faster than most in the usual conditions, so I assume the 150% is close to the right sail most of the time. I do allow for the fact I am inexperienced so my assessment may be off.

I suppose I will look into a smaller head sail. Not so easy to change by myself but I am sure I will get better at that with practice.

Thanks all!

[YPSILANTI]

yes, it is safe to do so. Id heard this same debate and I recently asked a rigging expert the same question. His reply was emphatic, yes its safe to do so and it wont cause any damage or place any undue stress on your rigging. To the contrary.