Re-rigging without mast removal.

[screensaver]

Rigging replacement, Hunter 49 B&R Fractional, no backstay: Some, perhaps most of you are driven to this by insurance company requirements, Im not, its more a case of due diligence and having it not come down. So if yours is great than 10 years old, how old is it ? I am looking to replace standing rigging without removing the mast, has anyone done this ?. I am interested in comments from anyone who has done this, or had this experience, whether it was a good or bad experience. Im also interested in anyone who has had there mast come down or sustained any damage during this process or subsequently as a result of it. In my case removing the mast will add a significant amount of work and subsequently cost. Im sure I’m not the only one whom has dedicated continuous cable runs up there mast, that can’t /shouldn’t be cut such as analog 12 core Radar cable, full heavy duty (15mm) VHF, AIS, Cell phone cables, all high quality continuous runs. Disconnecting and dropping these is not a 5 min job, in mast furling with continuous furling line, would need to be cut, etc etc.

[stormalong]

I have done this with a keel stepped mast. Would not dare with a deck stepped one. Used every halyard as temporary stays. Took the rod rigging down and sent it off the get duplicated. Took about two weeks to get it back. Put back up in a day.

This does not replace the due diligence of pulling the mast every ten or fifteen years and doing a thorough inspection. I agree that it is a pain to do all the prep but it needs to be done.

[S/V Illusion]

Have replaced rigging on a few boats over the years. In each case, the rigging was around 10 years old and upon removal, defects were found not otherwise apparent particularly in the fittings.

Never even considered re-rigging with the mast up. Too much extra work not to mention potential for bigger problems. Doing it cheap doesn’t equate to better value.

There is no need to avoid good quality proper connectors on electronics. No need for or benefit from having “continuous” cables. And the furling lines are presumably as old as the rigging so likely needs replacement too.

[wholybee]

It is quite normal to replace rigging with the mast up. No problem there at all. Talk to a rigger.
Also, it isn't usually a big deal to unstep the mast. Some people do that every year for storage. Others do it every few years for maintenance. Last time my mast was out, it was out, put on the ground, and then put back later the same day. (that was for work in the boat on the mast step)

[screensaver]

[QUOTE=S/V Illusion;3852152]...upon removal, defects were found not otherwise apparent particularly in the fittings.

....Too much extra work



Can you explain what defects were fount that could not have been found my a good up mast inspection? ? Also what is the extra work, seems it would be greatly reduced to me.

[screensaver]

Yea thanks I would have thought so, but getting a lot of opposition from Riggers down under in Ozy.

[Neptune's Gear]

With Keel Stepped, no issue. Use halyards for support and remove stays/Shrouds one at a time, have them duplicated and replace. No problem (apart from multiple trips up the rig).
I'm about to do mine again (currently 13 yrs old), and this time with swageless terminals, so I can do all of it myself...

[chrisr]

like 99% of cats, our mast is deck stepped and we replaced all standing riging recently with mast in place

this is quite normal...done all the time

as regards age : 10 years as per insurance co requirement (and our preference)

cheers,

[Don C L]

My rigger and I did it, deck-stepped mast. Not only that he got the measurement for the headstay exactly right so that there is no turnbuckle on it. If you talk with a good rigger I am confident you'll find they have done it before. I suppose the opposition has to do with liability.
And like wholybee says, taking the mast down should not be that hard too.

[nuku34]

I've done several replacements of standing rigging with the mast in the yacht; both keel and deck stepped. The tallest deck mast stepped was 16m. I did all the work myself.
The rigs were all mast head and had fore and aft lowers (some were cutters with a staysail stay and runners). So there were plenty of wires holding the mast up. Modern fractional rigs with only caps and forestay (and maybe a backstay) are a whole other kettle of fish, and I personally wouldn't want to sail on a boat with a rig like that.


I do the cap shrouds only first. (the mast will NOT fall down!), then the 2 pairs of lowers. Forestay usually has a furler so that's just a single job.



Some of the yachts had Norseman/Stayloc fittings so I was able to duplicate each piece of rigging as it came down right on the dock using a roll of 1X19 wire. Some were swagged; I took them to the on-site rigger for duplication.
I either had a buddy crank me up the stick, or used my own solo mast climbing gear.


I've also had the mast removed on 3 of my 5 yachts.This was only because there were "issues" with the stick itself. If a few fittings need replacing, that's pretty easy to do with the stick up, IF you are handy.

I recognize that a lot of yacht owners these days aren't very handy, and that there may be insurance issues, but DIY is definitely possible.
I've seen enough dodgy "professional" work in my 60 years of boat owning that I make sure its done right even if I don't do it myself.


I once had a problem with a deck-stepped main mast ago. A previous owner had used a piece of plywood between the mast and the steel deck, and that had seriously rotted causing the rigging to go slack. The mast was located with a metal pipe about 500mm long welded to the deck. I used my big alloy spinnaker poles to make an "A" frame and lifted the mast about 100mm up with caps, backstay and forestay attached to the chain plates. I got the rotten ply out and fabricated a new step out of fibreglass in 2 "U" shaped pieces. That step was still good 14 years later. DIY is possible and sometimes necessary.

[donradcliffe]

I've done 4 rerig jobs, all with the mast down. I just feel its good practice to do a full inspection with the mast on the ground, and save up any rewiring and new light/antenna placement or spreader tip renewal till I can easily access things. Its no fun drilling and tapping 70 ft off the deck. I have replaced individual stays/shrouds with the mast up.

My decisions were based partially on the death of a French yachtie in Boat Lagoon, who attempted to rerig his 45 ft cat while supporting his mast with halyards. He went to up the mast, the halyards stretched, and he and the mast came down hard.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I've done 4 rerig jobs, all with the mast down. I just feel its good practice to do a full inspection with the mast on the ground, and save up any rewiring and new light/antenna placement or spreader tip renewal till I can easily access things. Its no fun drilling and tapping 70 ft off the deck. I have replaced individual stays/shrouds with the mast up.

My decisions were based partially on the death of a French yachtie in Boat Lagoon, who attempted to rerig his 45 ft cat while supporting his mast with halyards. He went to up the mast, the halyards stretched, and he and the mast came down hard.

Which is exactly why I said in my earlier post that I wouldn't dare try it on a deck stepped mast. A keel stepped mast can stand on it's own, a deck stepped cannot.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by screensaver

Rigging replacement, Hunter 49 B&R Fractional, no backstay: Some, perhaps most of you are driven to this by insurance company requirements, Im not, its more a case of due diligence and having it not come down. So if yours is great than 10 years old, how old is it ? I am looking to replace standing rigging without removing the mast, has anyone done this ?. I am interested in comments from anyone who has done this, or had this experience, whether it was a good or bad experience. Im also interested in anyone who has had there mast come down or sustained any damage during this process or subsequently as a result of it. In my case removing the mast will add a significant amount of work and subsequently cost. Im sure I’m not the only one whom has dedicated continuous cable runs up there mast, that can’t /shouldn’t be cut such as analog 12 core Radar cable, full heavy duty (15mm) VHF, AIS, Cell phone cables, all high quality continuous runs. Disconnecting and dropping these is not a 5 min job, in mast furling with continuous furling line, would need to be cut, etc etc.

Cost of a crane is minimal and is pretty much offset by reduced labour costs - It takes a LOT more time to re-rig in situ, rather than on the ground.


You also get the added bonus of being able to thoroughly inspect the mast, cups and tangs, electrics/cables and sheaves and replace/fix what needs doing, which is not so feasible when in the air.


Can your cables not be moused out and pulled intact with the mast?

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by UFO

Cost of a crane is minimal and is pretty much offset by reduced labour costs - It takes a LOT more time to re-rig in situ, rather than on the ground.


You also get the added bonus of being able to thoroughly inspect the mast, cups and tangs, electrics/cables and sheaves and replace/fix what needs doing, which is not so feasible when in the air.


Can your cables not be moused out and pulled intact with the mast?

I came here to say this. The complexity and time consuming nature, not to mention the risks associated with replacing B&R type discontinuous rigging on a deck stepped mast would make this a hard NO from me. I'm not saying I haven't done this in my younger years successfully, but it's sketchy at best, and you're one frozen pin or damaged spreader tip from a real battle and possibly the need to take it down anyway.
There's also the added benefit of being able to full inspect all other aspects of the rig when it's down, the step, the masthead components, fully service in mast furling system, etc etc.
The conmtinuous line can be popped out of the line drive on the back of the mast by the way... so no need to cut that.
90% of masts out there have electrical terminations at the mast base. Either make some cuts, or pull home runs of cable out. You'll be better off for it in the long run.
Taking the rig down will also likely save you money and hassle in the long run because you can fully remove the rigging, take it to your local rigger for reproduction, and then return to the boat with a complete package.
You can also remove spreaders and check pin holes for wear when the rig is down.

So many reasons to unstep...

I would offer suggestions for how to do it mast up, but honestly it's not worth the liablity as there is so much nuance when supporting a rig like this.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger

but it's sketchy at best, and you're one frozen pin or damaged spreader tip from a real battle and possibly the need to take it down anyway.

You can also remove spreaders and check pin holes for wear when the rig is down.

So many reasons to unstep...

I would offer suggestions for how to do it mast up, but honestly it's not worth the liablity as there is so much nuance when supporting a rig like this.

Yep...