Riggers want to replace my furlers!

[Bill O]

If it is only the tension components they are concerned about and want to replace those and the fore stay, that seems reasonable. Most of the "riggers" I've met just want to swap out fittings and are not much better/more knowledgeable than that.
We have a Harken MkI that we replaced the fore stay swage rod/stud that screws into the drum and the lower lower toggle (adjusting toggle). These are the "tension" components of the furler. Unless there was something wrong w/the treading in the drum for the studs to screw into, then it should be good to go.
Would double check w/Harken if those are still available (I believe they are) for the MkII. For our MkI, we also replaced the foil sections when they announced they had limited stock and were no longer going to carry them. Eventually we will need to replace the furler drum, but its working fine now and will cross that bridge when needed.

[s/v Moondancer]

I had a boat of simmilar age and size and when stressed shrouds, stays, chainplates and furlers fail. In the 'bay' failures are usually not life-threatening but out in serious blue water rig failures on a large boat are life-threatening.

I would happily daysail with you but off-shore that rigging is 10+years past its safe-date! Is it even insurable?

[Over Budget]

If in doubt, contact another rigger, or maybe even two, to get a second opinion. It will probably cost you for the "service call" but it will give you added confidence in your final decision.

[lvictorlucas]

Get another rigger not near you and pay him to come and look at it. Don't tell him who wants to replace the parts and tell him you will not mention his name to anyone.

[Bill O]

Best idea so far is to call the Harken to discuss. They are the experts of their own equipment and will give you good advise of the longevity of their equipment.
Replacing the stud/toggles are no big deal. Similarly, if you grabbed a couple of fellow sailors, you could drop and replace the stays fairly easily. Not too hard to cut a stay to the same length and use a swagelok/Hyan Hi-Mod on the top and the swagelok stud on the bottom to go back into the furler.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by nfbr

The issue seems to be (diagram below smaller size but same model)

https://www.fawcettboat.com/images/Harken-mk2-2-pl.pdf

HFG-119
HFG-718
883

Basically it's the custom turnbuckle part from harken that has the roller bearing race in it
I's brass with 2 stainless rods
They want to replace it' as it's under tension

I'm more skeptical

You say the Mk II - 2 is smaller, do you know if it is a 2.5 or a 3? The part numbers change with size.

The one you list as 883 is just a Sta-Lok stud (according to the parts list) so should be available somewhere. Both the 2.5 and the 3 use a 12mm stud (in the metric versions).

HFG718 becomes HFG719 (for 2.5) and HFG621 (for 3) - these will be the custom items.

HFG119 -> HFG117 or HFG310 - since these are the mates to the Sta-Lok stud they are likely available.

If your MkII is a size 3 they used the same HFG310 and HFG621 in the MkIII-3.

Can you tell from the parts lists above whether you have a 2.5 or 3? Getting the exact model would narrow down the search for the parts. Also confirm metric vs. imperial wire size?

[Curmugeon]

The furling on my O' Day 27 was originally installed in 1993.At the end of last season I found the forestay worn at the upper swage. I disassembled the drum, as per the instruction manual, pulled out the old forestay and took it to the to the local Harken listed rigger to have new forestay made. I was told Harken could not supply a bottom swage as they were no longer manufactured, but he could get one one size larger so I simply upsized the forestay and replaced the rigging. I have been sailing all season with no problems. There were only two issues easily overcome. The bottom joiner had a minimal bend so the swage could not go through it. This was solved by threading the forestay through the reconstructed upper part of the furler and then having the swage attached. The upper swage was larger than the top guide so all I had to do was to move it down by taking out the small locking bolt, drifting the guide down two inches and by careful measurement drilling a small hole through which to thread the bolt.
The disassembly took me about two hours and the reassembly about 3.
If the furling still furls, I would suggest that only the forestay needs replacing.

[zstine]

Is HFG-718 really under load from the forestay? I think the load just passes through to the stud that connects to the sta-lock stud, assembly 4?


Tupaia's source of $700 for the HFG-119 looks pricey. I bet a machine shop can match the old parts for less or it may be a standard toggle that you can buy from another source like Hayn perhaps with minor mods.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by zstine

Is HFG-718 really under load from the forestay? I think the load just passes through to the stud that connects to the sta-lock stud, assembly 4?....

HFG718 (and the bigger versions) is the turnbuckle for the system. The inside is threaded to take the wire stud and the toggle stud. The tack swivel that is also part of the assembly rides on the body. So, yes, it is under tension. And it is a complex part, because it has the turnbuckle function, the bearing surface, and the tack swivel.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by zstine

Is HFG-718 really under load from the forestay? I think the load just passes through to the stud that connects to the sta-lock stud, assembly 4?


Tupaia's source of $700 for the HFG-119 looks pricey. I bet a machine shop can match the old parts for less or it may be a standard toggle that you can buy from another source like Hayn perhaps with minor mods.

Agree with this,
Always more than one way to fix the problem if parts NLA. RaymondR summed up the stresses for you.
I repaired an old furler using non-std parts, used for 10 years but not full time cruising & racing, it worked fine.

[zeehag]

ok so if the rigger says not available, and if the rigger convinces you to buy new--make sure you KEEP THE OLD as there are places in this planet where things are repaired not replaced.

[Gone Gypsy]

We had a failure on a Harlem MarkII last season on our Corsair F28. The internal connector between the furler, the luff feeder segment and the first standard foil failed due to a transport issue.

Indeed the MarkII is no longer supported and most parts are no longer available from Harken. Your only source is to find old inventory at a boat shop or salvage pieces from a scrap pile.

The lower connector bridges furler, luff feeder slot and the first foil. It is longer than each connector further up the furler. I found a short connector and a new standard foil in old dealer stock and modified the foil by drilling new holes in it to match the shorter connector set screw hole locations. I accepted this was a compromise.

For me this was acceptable for day sailing from a US port. A cruiser in a far off port would be in trouble - delayed and at the mercy of local supply and skill.

Be realistic about your sailing style and location and make the call about using obsolete, unsupported equipment.

[billgewater]

It's all very technical as it should be... however consider what happens at the insurance end. If the work is carried out by certified riggers you should send a copy of their work to your insurers. Reduce the possibility of comeback from the insurers. The insurance company will seek any loophole they can possibly use so certification is probably much more important than any realistic (or otherwise) engineering opinions. That's a big expensive looking cat. and it would be a financial disaster to be left in the lurch with the rig lying in a shambles over the boat and the once fawning insurance company diving for cover.
If insurance is not your thing then I would be getting written info. from the original suppliers ... if possible.

Hilaire Belloc opined "Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light
Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!"

[CaptBobR]

[QUOTE=Tupaia;3244750]Do you know what parts are required?
Have you tried sourcing those parts yourself?
It is often a case of the riggers "usual" supplier not harving them rather than them not being available at all. The rigger may not sell Harken therefore not have a good supply chain for their parts.

Contact Harken HQ and find out if the parts are no longer available.


Not that it will bother you but if you need to replace Profurl use commercially available seals and bearings not specific to Profurl.[/QUOTE

As a rigger you are asking for lots of potentially serious issues if you do this and don’t know what you’re doing

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Furlers (Genoa / Solent) are Harken MkII - riggers want to replace both as "parts not available, and they normally replace all .
Paul

Of course they want to.