rigging a spinnaker pole

[Halifax Sailor]

Is there any difference in rigging the downhaul for the spinnaker pole to the fore end or to a ring/rope attached to both ends? I am trying to make this as easy as i can so i can run the spinnaker with a fairly new crew. I can run it either way as i have rings on deck to fit either setup. Going to use it for cruising only, not racing, so easiest but safest.

[maine50]

It depends if you intend to gybe the spin and what method. Usually with a smaller boat >30 something, you don't dip pole gybe, but rather secure the pole downhaul on a bridle and detach the mast end connecting to the new sheet. If you never gybe the spin (change tacks) then it doesn't matter.

[Hydra]

On a 27' yacht, I wouldn't hesitate and rig the downhaul on a bridle, provided that the pole is really reversible.

I have a 30' boat rigged this way and gybing isn't a problem, if the helmsman runs a straight course, dead downwind. You just have to ease slightly the guy, to reduce the compression in the pole when releasing it from the mast.

Alain

[StuM]

Do you have a spinnaker uphaul/topping lift rigged? If so, rig the downhaul the same way.

[Halifax Sailor]

I have either a padeye at the bow by the anchor roller or i have a large cheech block at the base of the mast. Dies it matter whick one or is one better than the other? I do have the pole bridles, one for the top and one for the bottom. I also have topping lift and downhaul ready and rigged.

[Hydra]

IME, it is better to lead the downhaul to the bow. This way, the pole is really prevented from moving: the topping lift pulls up, the guy pulls aft and down, the downhaul pulls down and forward. This is really important in a seaway.

To better restrict the motions of the pole, I use lines with a Dyneema core because they stretch less.

Alain

[Snowpetrel]

27 foot, end for end the pole, with a bridle for the topper and the downhaul. I'd rig the downhaul mid foredeck and run it back to the cockpit. Alternatively run the downhaul back to the base of the mast like a vang. This is easier to adjust but not as powerful in a blow, but for light stuff it works very well. I'd probably go 2:1 for the downhaul. Ideally also some twings or barber haulers to help control the kite during gybes and take some of the load of the downhaul and pole when tight reaching.

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[Snowpetrel]

Hydra is right about running it forward in a big seaway. But in light winds and smooth seas simple is good. You can always rig a pole end to foredeck downhaul for stronger stuff or lumpy seas.

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[Jim Cate]

Way back in my racing days on SF Bay, and in a slightly larger boat (S&S 30) we used end for end gybes, bridles above and below, and the downhaul lead to the foredeck. Plenty of lumpy seas and strong winds, no issues with the rigging (can't say that about the kite!). Still used that setup when racing single-handed, save using a sock on the kite.

Should work fine on the OP's boat.

Jim

[Paul Elliott]

It's been said already, but it depends on how you will be using the pole. If you will be flying a symmetrical spinnaker and doing end-for-end jibes, then use a bridle and run the uphaul and downhaul where the lead is best.

If you are doing dip-pole jibes then use either the bridle or end-pole attachments for the up/down hauls. The same holds true if you are poling out a genoa or something.

The bridle works fine, but end-pole attachments are a little simpler and put less compression force on the pole.

[UNCIVILIZED]

You're able to maintain a LOT more control over the pole by always leaving the butt end connected to the mast, so long as you're using the pole. And by running your foreguy to a block (or two blocks) out at the bow.

One of the key reasons being, is that if you do end for end gybes, via detaching the pole both; from the mast, as well as the spinnaker guy at the same time. Then the person working the pole, needs both hands on the pole in order to do this.
And is conducting the end for end pole swap, all while balancing on a rapidly moving & pitching foredeck/cabintop. During which time, they're now trying to snag the new spinnaker guy with the outboard end of the pole.
Followed by then locking the (now compression loaded) pole back onto the mast (usually at head level or higher). While still having zero hands free with which to hold onto the boat.

So unless they're really practiced, & confident, it's a hairy drill.
Pull up some youtube videos of J24's. As they do end for end gybes exclusively, & it can get "interesting" being the foredeck guy, wrestling with the pole during a gybe. For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W4EcTwedlA

- Keep in mind that most of the tutorial, kite gybing footage, is shot in very calm winds & seas. Where as in 15kts, with 5' swells & any kind of chop, & the bowman's dancing on top of a proverbial moving bowling ball.

I've raced on 95% of what's out there. And dip pole gybes, where the butt end of the pole stays on the mast, are the way to go.

With a dip pole gybe, the bowman sits in the bow pulpit facing aft, braced in place, & holds the new guy, while the mast man simply swings the lowered outboard end of the pole in front of the bowman. Who has both hands free, while seated in a secure position, to lock the new guy into the pole's jaws.
Where, once that's done, the pole is re-raised, & swung out to it's new position on the other side of the boat.
- Also, in a pinch/if you're short-handed. Using this method, the bowman can simply grab the foreguy, pull the pole to him while seated in the pulpit. And then lock in the new sheet.
From there, the trimmers can pull the outboard end of the pole, up & aft. And you're back in business.

It's a lot more controlled, & safer. So unless you're racing in a one design fleet, where your choices of hardware are mandated, it's the way to go.
Especially as it's a lot easier manuver to perform, given that everyone is holding onto the boat in one way or another, all of the time. In lieu of doing the free handed, guy spearing dance, in front of the mast (end for end gybes).

There are a couple of hardware setup diagrams here Harken but odds are, youtube, plus a few rigging/tuning guides & books are your best bet. That, & or an experienced hand.

PS: In case it's not clear, I'm advocating leading both your topping lift, & your foreguy, to the outboard most end of the pole.

[Jim Cate]

I've raced on 95% of what's out there. And dip pole gybes, where the butt end of the pole stays on the mast, are the way to go.

Lets keep this in perspective: this is a 27 foot cruising boat with an unskilled cruising crew. End for end gybes are simple and pretty easy under the kind of conditions where such a crew are gonna be gybing the kite. There ain't gonna be a bow man and a mast man and a main trimmer and a guy man and a sheet man and a helmsman and some one to do the choreography.

Jim

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Lets keep this in perspective: this is a 27 foot cruising boat with an unskilled cruising crew. End for end gybes are simple and pretty easy under the kind of conditions where such a crew are gonna be gybing the kite. There ain't gonna be a bow man and a mast man and a main trimmer and a guy man and a sheet man and a helmsman and some one to do the choreography.

Jim

+1, if your still running a kite in the sort of stuff that's going to make an end for end gybe on a 27 footer fun and games, you are not cruising.. by the time stuff starts to get remotely "exciting" you are much better off going poled out headsail.

Having gybed j24's short handed (3 pob) in some decent wind, at least enough to get the old thing up and planing at times, I can say it was a pretty easy affair to end for end it. Though I do remember the odd fun and games end for ending the poles on a 30 footer in 30 knots.

But in the light stuff end for ending is so quick and easy shorthanded that I wouldn't consider dip poling, with all the problems dealing with lazy sheets and guys, pole uphauls etc.

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[Paul Elliott]

The OP also has the issue of how his pole is attached to the mast. On my boat I couldn't end-for-end even if I wanted to, since the butt-end of the pole is fitted to a pin on the mast track. I could still attach the uphaul and downhaul to a bridle, but I can't think of a reason why I would want to do that.

Halifax Sailor, what fittings do you have on the pole?

[Halifax Sailor]

Pole has the attached pic at both ends. I have a movable ring on the mast, on a track about 24" long to adjust the height. I am able to rig back to the cockpit the topping lift and the down haul so can be adjusted from cockpit. Chute halyard also goes back to cockpit. We are definitely cruisers and will not be racing with the chute, its symmetrical btw (see pic). Took this last year when i had a couple of guys aboard who knew what they were doing. So i have a padeye about 30" back from the bow i could go to with down haul OR i can attach to bow via pins and shackle set up. Just looking for the greatest and safest ease of flying the chute with a couple of newbies ( and i am new to chutes as well).