Rigging look okay ?

[tompelletier]

Looking at a 68 C&C30 redwing, but wanted to ask the community their thoughts on the condition of the rigging in the pictures before getting a proper survey.



The current owner doesnt know last time rigging was done.


Thanks !

[Benz]

It's rarely the turnbuckles that fail....more often it's a wire, of which there are no pictures, or a chainplate, which cannot be inspected without pulling it out. And with stainless steel you can't visibly see the catastrophic damage that's about to occur. The chainplates must be pulled and dye-tested to be sure; the wires ought to be replaced if there's doubt about their age.
A gang of wire rigging for a 30' boat shouldn't be too expensive to replace.

[tompelletier]

Hey Benz, Thanks for your reply.
I went around to each wire and felt up the bottom ~10ft of it (as high as i could reach) and it all felt smooth (no wires popping out) and no visible discoloration. Is this how you would check the wires ?

[grantmc]

Tom you don't say where you are, nor the resources close by, but you obviously have some doubts. Perhaps there's a rigger within a half hours drive? I wouldn't expect it to be more than $2-300 for a proper appraisal. He/she will climb mast too and they know what to look for.
You can't expect great reassurance from posting a bunch of pics for us keyboard warriors, and you can't take a bunch of internet posts to the insurance company.

[psk125]

The third picture from the end (near the water (?) fill cap) makes it look like the chainplate and shroud are misaligned. This should NOT be the case. The last one has a opening which uses too long a clevis. This puts uneven/spot loading on the clevis pin that can lead to it cracking: not good. Makes it look like your questioning the status of the rigging is valid. What we're seeing is only what's readily visible on deck. What worse might be going on at the masthead or the spreader tips? You may need to replace all of it.

[tompelletier]

Originally Posted by grantmc

Tom you don't say where you are, nor the resources close by, but you obviously have some doubts. Perhaps there's a rigger within a half hours drive? I wouldn't expect it to be more than $2-300 for a proper appraisal. He/she will climb mast too and they know what to look for.
You can't expect great reassurance from posting a bunch of pics for us keyboard warriors, and you can't take a bunch of internet posts to the insurance company.

The plan is to get a survey of the boat but i just wanted to post a few pictures here and see if anyone could spot anything major before we dished out the cost of a survey

[tompelletier]

Originally Posted by psk125

The third picture from the end (near the water (?) fill cap) makes it look like the chainplate and shroud are misaligned. This should NOT be the case. The last one has a opening which uses too long a clevis. This puts uneven/spot loading on the clevis pin that can lead to it cracking: not good. Makes it look like your questioning the status of the rigging is valid. What we're seeing is only what's readily visible on deck. What worse might be going on at the masthead or the spreader tips? You may need to replace all of it.

Thanks for the input

[Jim Cate]

In pic #5 the rigging screw appears to be bottomed out. This is a bad sign in general, and perhaps also should ring the warning bell that a rig survey (or just planning on immediate renewal) should be in the thoughts about your offer on the boat.

One can't really expect to see the small details that could condemn the rig from internet pix. You need some skilled eyes right there on the boat!

good luck with the decision...

Jim

Jim

[roverhi]

Those ss strap toggle end pieces are prone to developing cracks and should be carefully inspected. Not that they are necessarily a problem but an area that should be looked at carefully. Wire usually fails at the swages. Crevice corrosion or work hardening can cause individual strands of wire to break. Swages also often develop cracks. That is not a guarantee that they will fail but a damned good indication they should be renewed ASAP.

Get some Oxalic Acid or Barkeeper's Friend and remove all the corrosion from the above areas and look at them very carefully. A magnifying glass is a good idea.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by tompelletier

Hey Benz, Thanks for your reply.
I went around to each wire and felt up the bottom ~10ft of it (as high as i could reach) and it all felt smooth (no wires popping out) and no visible discoloration. Is this how you would check the wires ?

The problem with stainless steel as I said before is that it can look perfectly fine until it fails catastrophically. I have no way of checking wires visually--I recommend changing them at intervals--heavy use in the tropics, ten years. Light use in the great lakes, maybe twenty? Either way, unless I knew the source and age of the wires, I wouldn't risk anything other than daysailing on a boat I'd just bought.
Even if the surveyor gives them a pass, I'd be uncomfortable until they were renewed. Well, I'd still be uncomfortable until they were replaced with dyneema.

[thomm225]

I have rigging screws that have bottomed out also. (backstay)

I noticed it in 2012 when I set/tuned my rig.

The tightest I could get it was 440 on the Loos Gauge before the adjustment ran out.

So I set all my "stays" to 440 except the forward lowers which are at 550 for a bit of prebend.

My next step is replacement. I still have a bit of prebend left so the rigging haven't eased off or stretched too much over the last 8 years but it's only a matter of time. I didn't meet the PO but I know he went on a 2 years cruise in 2004 and left the boat near here in 2006.

The rigging didn't look new then so I'd guess minimum 20 years old.

I was out in near 33 knot winds recently and the subject of the old rigging stayed with me the entire 20 mile crossing as the wind sang through it. (especially during one accidental gybe)

If I had lost my rig on that day, the boat and Skipper would have taken one hell of a beating. It would have been ugly and a real challenge to save the boat. (I was single handing also)

As far as how the rigging looks, mine seems to look fine when at the dock but when the wind and waves get up and I cannot see land it sometimes doesn't look so good......since I know how old it is.

[bglad]

I am not expert on rigging that age and not a rigger by trade, but look at rigging pretty regularly. It is not common these days to have ring terminals on the bottoms of the wire or full toggles top and bottom of the turnbuckles. Some of the toggles look typical (newer), but clevises in bottom right photo look like chromed bronze not something I have seen around on newer rigs. Looks like the rig has been around the block a few times. Would be prudent to change it, and inspect chain plates and the structure they fasten to inside the hull.

[Sherpa17]

1x19 cable with swaged fittings develop problems where the wire exits the barrel of the fitting, often at the bottom because the barrel is facing up and water travels down and sits there.

Cable also can develop problems at the spreader tips over time depending on how they're attached.

Holes in chainplates or mast tangs become elongated and create point loads on clevis pins which in turn can cause cracks in toggles,

It's difficult to properly survey a stepped and tuned mast.

These are well known boats. You can find pricing for the wire assemblies online for comparison. 1x19 cable is offered in different alloys and construction so prices will vary.

It's probably time to replace it.

[zstine]

if the previous owner won't say when the rigging was done, it is most likely time to replace it... Unless you plan to just day sail or weekend cruise in good weather, close to help. Peace of mind. If going offshore, I would plan to replace it.. $2k-$3k i'd guess


Even the best surveys can't find every issue, especially internal to swages. I wouldn't pay to survey it unless you think that will help you negotiate a lower price, paying for the survey... Regardless of the survey results, if you are going offshore, replace it.

[Maclir]

As others have pointed out the rigging has some faults, If you ask a rigger, I guarantee his answer will be -Replace all!