Rigging Strengths ?

[bdurham]

im wondering how i would be able to know if the stock standing rigging on a mid 80's catalina would be up to the task of water sailing">blue water sailing. if not where can i get stronger rigging? what are the costs?

[MarkJ]

The owners manual should have the sizes in it.
I just had some of mine done on a Beneteau and they are all listed in the book.

If you dont have the owners manual try a Cataline owners group/website etc

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by bdurham

im wondering how i would be able to know if the stock standing rigging on a mid 80's catalina would be up to the task of blue water sailing. if not where can i get stronger rigging? what are the costs?

You can get the "Riggers Handbook" from Brion Toss to answer most of your questions or hire a rigger for lots of money. Brion Toss also has DVD/videos on how to tune, inspect, and do most everything with "rigging." They are great. Brion Toss Yacht Riggers, Sailboat Rigging:VDs & Videos
- - You can follow the manufacturers recommendations for rigging or go one size larger by using stuff like "Dyform" wire. But normally, just following the manufacturers specs works quite well.
- - If you are mechanically or engineer-minded you can do the re-rigging yourself for about a third of the cost of hiring somebody. But a wild guess for your size boat would be $2K for wire and stuff and $4K for the rigger's labor.

[skipmac]

Just purchased all new rigging for a 42' cutter. That includes wire, turnbuckles, toggles, Staloks, and even chainplates.

Will assemble and install myself so paid a rigger for the parts only. Total cost, including shipping about $3400.

Bought it all from Sailing Services in Miami. Highly recommended. They have been in business at least 30-35 years and have always been careful about the quality of their work, all the way to tyhe brand of wire they use. Shipping would not be that much so you could order from them to ship anywhere in the states.

Skip

PS
The chainplates I made myself so not part of what I purchased from Sailing Services. However I imagine they could include that as well.

[blgklr]

F.W.I.W. -I.M.H.O.

There is nothing wrong with going up one size in wire for your own peace of mind. But I think you should only tension the wire to the same spec as the original wire. That way there should not be any distortion or deformation of hull or structure.

[S/V Alchemy]

Wow. Lots of good advice in this thread.

Skipmac, if that price to rerig doesn't persuade people to investigate it and to consider doing their own rigging, I don't know what will. A complete rerig is an element prepatory to going offshore, and therefore is a "teachable moment" for the time you have a rigging issue in a distant anchorage.

Best part? Keep the old forestay and one upper and one lower as spares.

[barnakiel]

If a boat was designed for offshore work, the rigging (size) was designed for this sort of work.

If not, then also the mast terminals / backing plates / extrusion specs / chainplates, wil NOT be up to offshore work.

You upgrade shrouds, something else will go. Waste of time.

But it makes sense to replace all old rigging and have new one prior to any extended voyage.

b.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

If a boat was designed for offshore work, the rigging (size) was designed for this sort of work.

If not, then also the mast terminals / backing plates / extrusion specs / chainplates, wil NOT be up to offshore work.

You upgrade shrouds, something else will go. Waste of time.

But it makes sense to replace all old rigging and have new one prior to any extended voyage.

b.

Outa the mouths of Babe's n Ole Buga's....................

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Best part? Keep the old forestay and one upper and one lower as spares.

Normally that would be my plan. BUT, this boat came with a Hyde roller furliing system on the jib which has no stay but uses the foil as the support. I will save the back stay and at least one upper shroud for spares and will use two of the lowers for jack lines.

Considering the total amount I'm spending to overhaul the boat in preparation for offshore, three boat units is not a big piece.

Skip

[CDunc]

Bdurham,

One other note is to make sure to compare apples to apples, In other words older stainless rigging was I believe type 304 stainless, wheras the new stainless is 316, both have their merits but diff properties. You can ask your rigging shop what they reccommend and at least where I'm at it wont cost you a dime, or you can google the properties of each type of stainless. I personally went up one size when I changed mine out last year.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Best part? Keep the old forestay and one upper and one lower as spares.

Exactly.

+ If lowers are different length, keep two!

b.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Normally that would be my plan. BUT, this boat came with a Hyde roller furliing system on the jib which has no stay but uses the foil as the support. I will save the back stay and at least one upper shroud for spares and will use two of the lowers for jack lines.

Recycling with seamanlike flair.

I am not familiar with the Hyde system. Would it not be prudent (depending on your ability to carry spares) to have a "plain" forestay made up and then to carry a simple hank-on storm jib? My impression, unencumbered by facts, is that forestays go by the boards more than any other stay, and if I were to carry a spare above all other, it would be that one.

Also, it's often the longest stay, no? So you could cut it down and put on a swageless fitting for any other stay that decided to break instead of the forestay.

Just trying to cover all the bases with the least amount of gear and $$$ here...

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Recycling with seamanlike flair.

I am not familiar with the Hyde system. Would it not be prudent (depending on your ability to carry spares) to have a "plain" forestay made up and then to carry a simple hank-on storm jib? My impression, unencumbered by facts, is that forestays go by the boards more than any other stay, and if I were to carry a spare above all other, it would be that one.

Also, it's often the longest stay, no? So you could cut it down and put on a swageless fitting for any other stay that decided to break instead of the forestay.

Just trying to cover all the bases with the least amount of gear and $$$ here...

Considering my long range plans I decided to off the Hyde system as soon as I saw how it worked. Just did not like the thought of no forestay under the aluminum foil. The tougher question for me, was whether to stick with the simplest possible, most bullet proof system and stay with hank on jib or go with a new roller furling system.

After much debate (with myself) I went with a new Harken for the jib. This decision was helped by the fact that I have a cutter rig and will leave the staysail plain for a hank on storm sail.

Regarding the spares, storage space is limited so may do as you suggest and keep one piece of wire long enough to replace any on the rig and keep Stalok fittings so it could be cut to size and rigged if needed.

Yes, definitely look for the "most bang for the buck" solution. Do have to be careful that I don't cross the line between recycler or just a plain pack rat.

[barnakiel]

Re the many kinds of rollers / furlers I like the ones that function around a continuous forestay in a way that should the furling gear go astray, the hardware can be stripped off and the forestay can be used for hanked sails.

Off the two units we have here (Plastimo and Harken) only the Plastimo can be 'stripped' this way.

Needless to say, on our ship there is a spare forestay running just inside of the furling gear so that if we cannot use the sail on the furler we strip nothing - just hook in the forestay, hank in the sail and off we go.

But it is nice to know that an 'emergency conversion' to hanks can be done nearly anywhere, and at no extra cost.

b.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Re the many kinds of rollers / furlers I like the ones that function around a continuous fore stay in a way that should the furling gear go astray, the hardware can be stripped off and the fore stay can be used for hanked sails.

Off the two units we have here (Plastimo and Harken) only the Plastimo can be 'stripped' this way.

Needless to say, on our ship there is a spare fore stay running just inside of the furling gear so that if we cannot use the sail on the furler we strip nothing - just hook in the fore stay, hank in the sail and off we go.

But it is nice to know that an 'emergency conversion' to hanks can be done nearly anywhere, and at no extra cost.

b.

This was one concern and the reason I had to think about it before going with a roller furling. I ended up with Harken based on quality and price but some of the factors that I considered before going furler at all:

1. Twin groove foil so can use for changing sails even if the roller system jams or even one groove is damaged.

2. Boat is cutter rigged so I do have a spare, get home if slowly option.

3. Would not be quick or easy, but I could disassemble the gear and remove the roller system.

4. Short handed I think the ease of furling/reefing the jib outweighs the potential concerns for jamming or other breakage. If I planned any high latitude or other high risk sailing I might rethink.

One question, if you have a roller furler but plan to have hank on as a backup, do you have hanks or at least the eyes for the installation already sewn into your jibs?