Rigid vang vs block and tackle

[mlydon]

My boat currently has no vang. While most of her sister ships have rigid vangs, they cost a pretty penny. I’ve had both in the past my likes and dislikes were that:

Rigid was smoother, pivot pt same as gooseneck, vs rope on bails juddering as the boom travels from side to side

Bails are simple, vs huge honking brackets bolted to mast and boom

I never took advantage of the rigid holding the boom UP when you drop the sail - I was always worried leaning on the end with no topping lift could snap the boom, considering all the leverage you have.

So I think overall, having a simple vang (fiddle blocks with snap shackles) combined with rigid-style attachment points, is probably the best of both worlds.

Are there any performance advantages to a rigid I’m not considering, and has anyone done the combo I’m thinking of?

Matt

[Tillsbury]

Rigid simply gives you support so there is no need for a topping lift. They are usually sprung (or gas-lifted) then you haul in on the tackle to pull the boom down. Bigger ones can be hydraulically controller but these aren’t cheap.

I don’t know what you mean by honking brackets — my Selden boom has a simple bracket that slides along the underside of the boom and is held in place by Allen bolts.

If there’s the remotest chance your boom could break by you “leaning on it” then I’d suggest you replace the boom immediately. On a 50-footer you should be able to jump up and down on the end of it otherwise the slightest gust would bend it in two.

So, block and tackle (what we poms would call a “kicking strap”) if on a budget, or a solid rod (what we’d call a vang), which is so much nicer to use if it’s within your budget.

[steve77]

Originally Posted by mlydon

I was always worried leaning on the end with no topping lift could snap the boom, considering all the leverage you have.

Matt

In the words of Roy D Mercer, "How big a boy are you?".

Your boom is a lot stronger than you think. You're not gonna snap it. Our setup would be expensive to install today, but it is a Navtec rigid vang with hydraulic adjuster for a 49 foot boat. I have a separate halyard to occasionally use as a topping lift if I need to remove the vang, but otherwise the vang supports the boom 100% of the time.

I understand you want to use fiddle blocks and snap shackles. Unless you need to regularly remove the vang, I would use regular shackles just to remove a point of possible failure.

Cheers!

Steve

[LongRange]

From time to time, I climb into the sailbag on our 45 footer to fix up the way the mainsail has stacked. When my 90kg of daintiness is near the end of the boom, as far as I can go without falling out onto the bimini, the force has compressed the spring in the solid vang by maybe 3cm. All that hardware is massively strong, as it has to be given the forces generated by sailing

[GILow]

I seem to remember Kaye Cottee cracked her boom at the rigid vang attachment point. And if my memory serves me correctly, the circumstances were such that a rope vang might not have given the same problem. Downwards pressure with the sail stowed perhaps? It was in the southern ocean I think, approaching Cape Horn, so not likely to have been pleasant conditions. Maybe the boom got away and hit the water on a roll...?

This might be considered a downside of a solid vang. (If my recollections are correct.)

[sanibel sailor]

I have block and tackle with snap shackles. Advantages are being able to move connection from base of mast to rail to function as a preventer as well as being able to remove it completely if I need to put the dink or something else there under the boom temporarily.

[DEAN2140]

Solid vang much preferred, for the reasons already given. The only downside, (other than the cost) is the boom could snap at the attachment point if you experience an uncontrolled jibe. This happened to me on a J105.

[roverhi]

Have the traditional vang, actually vangs, one on each side. Did not go with rod vang for two reasons. Have long boom with goose neck fairly close to deck. Felt the resulting tight angle for a rod vang would result in too high forces at the vang attachment points. 2nd was the rod vang severely limited deck storage behind the mast.

Went with two four part tackles more or less permanently attached to boom and pad eyes on the walkways either side and tails led to jamb cleats in the cockpit. Don't have to go forward to release or set them on a tack or jibe. They act as preventers which came in really handy running wing and wing DDW to Hawaii. Another big advantage in port is they lock the boom in place. Really nice to have the boom to grab onto at anchor or wherever and have it a solid steady support and/or the boom swung out to one side to free up the cockpit. Disadvantage is you have to remember to release the vang on a jibe

Rod vangs or tackle set up like a rod vang do have the advantage of being always in place and more or less a set and forget system. That is also a disadvantage as I think a lot of people never try and adjust the position of the vanged boom which can hurt sail efficiency. No topping lift though I feel safer hanging on the end of the boom with a lift.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Other factors (perhaps):
- topping lift contributing to chafe on the main sail - it's avoidable, but it think it's a factor in favour of a boom vang.
- how much you value the space on deck under the boom. With removable tackle, and options for attachment points (to the boom and the boat) you can have that space when appropriate. This a factor against a boom vang.
- As someone has said, using the boom as a crane - very handy.
- can the system be worked from the cockpit?

For me, it depends on the boat and its purpose, but I'd tend toward the removable tackle with several attachment points, and a topping lift.

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Went with two four part tackles more or less permanently attached to boom and pad eyes on the walkways either side and tails led to jamb cleats in the cockpit. Don't have to go forward to release or set them on a tack or jibe. They act as preventers which came in really handy running wing and wing DDW to Hawaii.

Great idea, please may I copy ?? Or is it patented ??

[Tillsbury]

Before rigging anything as a “preventer” to the midships or toerail or shrouds, please read the Maritime NZ report of the Platino event and Morgan’s Cloud’s cutting summary of how bad an idea this is on AAC.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

Great idea, please may I copy ?? Or is it patented ??

I'll license the idea to you for a small fee and your first born child. Had a single tackle on the boat we sailed to SoPac. Any time we changed sheet tension had to go on deck and loosen or tighten the vang and also for any tack or jibe. I'm a lazy sailor and it was PITA I wanted to avoid. So decided to do two vangs, one to each side on current boat and it's worked a treat with the bitter ends led back to the cockpit. Harken fiddle blocks show up regularly on Ebay to keep the cost down if you are patient. As I mentioned, one of the nicest things about the double vang is it stabilizes the boom in position. Don't know how many times I've grabbed the boom in boats without it to keep from falling and have nearly gone down/overboard because the boom moved.

Tilsbury, don't keep us in suspense, what issue did the Kiwis have with a preventer?? Am well aware that a midship vang/preventer wouldn't be a good idea should you dip the boom in the water. If conditions were bad enough that that could happen would either add a boom end preventer or do away with the mid boom vang. So far haven't had any problems and have probably sailed more than 6,000 open ocean miles with an old style vang.

[picklesandjesse]

Thanks, you are most welcome to my first born child, he's now 29 and you can find him in Nanaimo BC. Does excellent woodwork.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Tilsbury, don't keep us in suspense, what issue did the Kiwis have with a preventer?? Am well aware that a midship vang/preventer wouldn't be a good idea should you dip the boom in the water. If conditions were bad enough that that could happen would either add a boom end preventer or do away with the mid boom vang. So far haven't had any problems and have probably sailed more than 6,000 open ocean miles with an old style vang.

The NZ report is a grim read. But in summary, a 678 kg boom and sail package restrained by a preventer at an angle of 6 degrees to the boom failed after an unintended gybe.

Computer models of the STATIC load from backwinding produced a 7000kg pull on the preventer as it was rigged vs 1700 kg if it had been rigged correctly. Needless to say it failed and as a direct consequence two lives were lost. There were other issues with the boat/crew/fitout, but the preventer arrangement is probably the biggest takeaway I could find.

Still trying to find the Morgan’s Cloud article.

[Tillsbury]

https://www.morganscloud.com/2018/10...that-can-kill/