Roll-Genoa too long over forestay

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Cut off top 8 inches of the sail and install a head plate instead. Head plate similar to what you would have on the main.

A head plate is really not an good option with a roller furling sail…

[wingssail]

Lots of comments here telling you that you can't do it.

They are wrong.

To shorten the luff 8" the simplest thing is to trim off the tack and sew a new tack cringle up 8". Mostly this will not eliminate enough of the tack reinforcement patch to risk problems with the sail, but if you're concerned have a sailmaker do the change.

Ask for one more layer of heavy cloth to be sewed over the existing (remaining) corner patch and several rows of stiches to tie it into the existing patch before installing a new ring or webbing loop for the tack.

Secondly, don't cut the entire foot off of the sail. You don't need to remove 8" all the way from the tack to the clew. Just cut either a straight line from the new tack location to the existing clew (or just short of it) or cut a rocker off where the bottom. Make sure that the foot leech line is retained to prevent the foot from fluttering.

[Erik Latvian]

I see a problem if the tack is moved upwards - sail is designed as 3d cut and all load-bearing seams are directed stright to the existing tack corner. If the ring is moved up loads shall apply diagonally over sailcloth pannels and that may cause a problems in a long run.

However, what if top is cut off and instead of one loop two rings are installed and load is spread between them through pulley. Or instead of rings/pulley just two loops sewn like one at the very top in the picture.
Would such appoach cause any side effects?

[Martkimwat]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Cut off top 8 inches of the sail and install a head plate instead. Head plate similar to what you would have on the main.

Then it won't roll properly around the furling tube. Better to get a sailmaker involved who may just cut an inch or so off the luff and reattach the bolt rope etc, that will reduce the hoist height by around 6~8 inches.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Martkimwat

Then it won't roll properly around the furling tube. Better to get a sailmaker involved who may just cut an inch or so off the luff and reattach the bolt rope etc, that will reduce the hoist height by around 6~8 inches.

This is also a good solution, but a little more work for the sailmaker and the luff tape must be sewed back on very carefully. If it is not perfect it will introduce big wrinkles in the luff area which you will be lookng at for the next five years.

[Martkimwat]

Originally Posted by wingssail

This is also a good solution, but a little more work for the sailmaker and the luff tape must be sewed back on very carefully. If it is not perfect it will introduce big wrinkles in the luff area which you will be lookng at for the next five years.

Since that is how the sail is 'assembled' in the first place, I don't see how that is likely unless the sailmaker is an amateur...I had this done on one of my sails which I wanted to use on an inner forestay and which therefore needed a shorter luff than was the case when it was on the headstay. I did not have any problems that you fear, but then I used a reputable sailmaker.

[TrentePieds]

Hej på dej, Erik :-)!

Why do you have a roller furling jib at all on a boat like a Vagabond31? I assume you do your sailing in the Gulf of Riga? Odd trip to the Åland Islands or over to Gotland, perhaps? Turku? Helsinki? In the summer, I assume, since the winter weather where you are cannot be conducive to sailing.

Forgive a personal observation which may be a gross misinterpretation of the situation: Owning a V31 MIGHT imply that you are not made of money? Well, neither am I, and I have roller furling on both sails of a five-ton, 30 foot sloop, God forgive me! Only because the boat was so fitted when we got her for a song. And at 82 I have so few years left that I'm not gonna blow my "mad money” on re-rigging an otherwise excellent boat. And like most Scowegians of my vintage I can sail anything I am given to sail - even boats with roller furling :-)

But here in the Salish Sea we can sail all year round. Wet, cold and blowey in the winters, but we don't need ice breakers :-). Here, our summer days are like those lovely, lovely balmy Scowegian summer days in the Baltic. So, in the summers, we needn't fear going to the mast or on the foredeck, and I doubt that you do where you are. In any event, your name implies that there is something Swedish or even Finnish about you, and you are probably as imbued with “sisu” as that lot generally is :-).

So why bother with such unnecessary complications as roller furling jibs? Scupper your jib furling gear and get out your sailorman's sewing kit. Sew some snap hanks to the luff of your newly acquired sail. Hoist it and go sailing! Once you are rid of the furling clobber, the luff of your newly acquired sail might just fit on your forestay! If it doesn't, then removing enuff cloth from the bottom panel of it will be child's play. If you don't have an adequate sewing machine it can all be done by hand-sewing, as any honest Ålandsman would do it,

A sail cut for roller furling won't have the ideal shape for a hank-on, but so what? I doubt that you'd be racing a V31, and in cruising use, you'd never know that the sail is not an “ideal” cut for bashing hard to weather in a fin-keeler. Which the V31 ain't! Obviously you'll be better off with a ADEQUATE sail than with a USELESS sail, so here is a nice tune to help you along with the sewing :-):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US6tNn7BOoE

All the best,

TrentePieds

[Imagineou812]

Sometimes it's cheaper to spend a dime to save a dollar than it is to spend a dollar to save a dime !!! In other words I think that you will find that it won't be nearly as expensive as you think to just take it to a sailmaker and have them re-cut it !!! This way it will be done right , look better , and last longer !!! JMHO

[Thumbs Up]

If the clew is in the right place it would be relatively easy to just shorten the tack.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Martkimwat

Since that is how the sail is 'assembled' in the first place, I don't see how that is likely unless the sailmaker is an amateur...I had this done on one of my sails which I wanted to use on an inner forestay and which therefore needed a shorter luff than was the case when it was on the headstay. I did not have any problems that you fear, but then I used a reputable sailmaker.

Yes, of course. But the difficulty comes in when you are dealing with a luff tape which has been removed and now has dimples and needle holes, and a leading edge of the sail which has been trimmed, hopefully straight. I am an amateur and I had trouble taping it straight before sewing, and keeping the pieces in place as I sewed the long luff back together.

An experienced sailmaker will be aware of this and can do a good job. His newbie machine operator may not be. I only mention it to make remind the OP to emphasizes the importance to the sailmaker to inform the sailmaker that he will be watching for this or to any amateur like me who tries to do it himself

By the way, most sails are not made in your local sailmaker's site, many are made in a central facility. The local sailmaker may not have been involved with very many original assemblies.

[Erik Latvian]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Why do you have a roller furling jib at all on a boat like a Vagabond31? I assume you do your sailing in the Gulf of Riga? Odd trip to the Åland Islands or over to Gotland, perhaps? Turku? Helsinki? In the summer, I assume, since the winter weather where you are cannot be conducive to sailing.
[...]
So why bother with such unnecessary complications as roller furling jibs?
[...]
TrentePieds

Actually I was looking for boat like Vagabond 31 three years and finally found the right one in 2018. Criteria for selection were full keel, rugged hull construction, double and triple shrouds/stays and capability of long distance single handed sailing. In one word heavy duty little blue water cruiser.
I absolutely agree that for Baltic sea there is no need for such boat but I prepare it for winters spent in warm waters of East Atlantic and/or other destinations.
In regard of roll furling: since boat is set up with two forestays + baby stay longest one is equipped with furling system but another one is left for jibs with carabiners. Jibs with carabiners are used mainly for heavy wind/wave conditions. Since previous roll-genoa is quite worn I bought new one for long distance sailing. As price of this new genoa was just 300eur (almost new triradial laminated dacron) I had no choice despite it doesn`t fit perfectly and needs reconstruction.
Hope this explains situation I`m trying to solve.

[Erik Latvian]

I see all suggestions consider reconstruction of tack/bottom of the sail but what about idea I described earlier? That would be simple and low cost solution.
(attached pictures see in the original message above)

Originally Posted by Erik Latvian

I see a problem if the tack is moved upwards - sail is designed as 3d cut and all load-bearing seams are directed stright to the existing tack corner. If the ring is moved up loads shall apply diagonally over sailcloth pannels and that may cause a problems in a long run.

However, what if top is cut off and instead of one loop two rings are installed and load is spread between them through pulley. Or instead of rings/pulley just two loops sewn like one at the very top in the picture.
Would such appoach cause any side effects?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Erik Latvian

I see all suggestions consider reconstruction of tack/bottom of the sail but what about idea I described earlier? That would be simple and low cost solution.
(attached pictures see in the original message above)

Erik, I tried to answer this previously. Let me try again.

The main load on the sail is up the leech. The entire leech, including the very back edge must be held strongly to support the leech of the sail.

If you connect two webbing straps with a line to a pulley on the halyard I am not sure that the aft webbing strap will have a sufficent share of the load to keep the leech tight. You may get a slack leech which will result in the leech falling off to leeward or fluttering of the leech.

I am not sure that this will happen because I have never seen it done. It is very common however to cut off a portion of the luff (you only have to remove a few inches to lower the head quite a bit), but as I said, this involves resewing much of the luff of the sail, or cutting off the bottom of the luff and moving the tack upward, which is a simpler job, since the luff tape is not involved and you have no risk of changing the overall sail shape.

But if I were you I'd take the sail to a sailmaker with the photos and discuss the options.

[Erik Latvian]

Originally Posted by wingssail

[...]
But if I were you I'd take the sail to a sailmaker with the photos and discuss the options.

Thanks Wingssail for input.
Taking the sail to sailmaker without prior consideration of the options isn`t good because for him easier is to make major reconstruction than to apply any method never tried earlier - more money, resul guaranteed.

[surazo]

move the roller forward