running back stays? how to use??

[Cheechako]

Yes and by the time there is much pressure on the staysail stay you have a reef in. Does having the head of the mainsail at about the staysail stay location provide oppositional force to keep the mast straight?

[jmschmidt]

If you are cruising the world with a limp noodle your are wasting both your time and money.

[TheThunderbird]

ALSO Good to prevent mast pumping on short waves.

As shrouds point backwards, more and more, baby stay, and running back-stays are not in use.

I love having it, not-structural gear

[patprice]

Hi All...my Swanson 36 Australian yacht is a cutter. She is a double spreader rig, spreaders in line, masthead forestay. Cutter stay at the upper spreaders. Furlers on both the genny and staysail. She has running backstays from the cutter stay attachment point, that is the upper spreaders.

A really good cruising rig in my opinion.

I find there is no need to use the runners in lighter weather but in windy/rough conditions the mast can pump rather dramatically. It is not a whimpy stick. On with a runner!

I replaced the runners with kevlar line, previously wire, but that was a bad move as they sing if on too tight.

Are they worth the trouble. You bet, a cutter setup is in my favourite compromise for cruising. I almost never furl the genoa, just shift down to the staysail at about 25 knots. The staysail does get furled when it gets nasty. But eventually it is a triple reefed main only. Wind as far forward as possible, about 70 deg off the bow.

[GILow]

In response to the OP, we have a cutter rig from the late 70's with running backstays. I use ours when I am sailing with the wind forward of the beam and I would like a good tight staysail stay. Otherwise, if I don't need good tension in the staysail stay, I leave them off, stowed beside the aft shrouds. The mast is strong enough to support the load without them. When I am just weekend sailing, I put away the staysail and yankee and swap the reacher onto the forward furler, inferior sailing performance but no stuffing around with staysails or running backstays.


Regarding position of attachment, ours have dedicated chainplates about 12 feet back from the mast, parallel with the wheel, so at least they are very easy to manage when sailing solo. They can be released from within the cockpit. I would assume there is some kind of similar dedicated mounting point on the Roberts 38? (Could not find any good pictures of a Roberts 38 deck layout to check, can't quite make it out from the supplied picture.) Ours do not clear the boom so the downwind running backstay must be released.


Matt

[grjfield]

I love my running backstays. Dont know why...just love em! I think it has to do with trimming the boat under sail... just one more item to look after.
Only downside is making sure the 'unused running backstay' is well secured.

On a slow cruise, we generally stow both backstays. Its only when we start playing or want to get somewhere fast do we have fun with them.

[sailcrazy]

From what I've been taught, running backs are needed if your spreaders are straight (not swept back) and you use a babystay for a staysail. I second the comment that a cuttter rig is the best....especially when the winds pick up. On our boat if we fail to set the running back our mast (a big cross-section with in-mast furling) starts to pump.....an instant reminder of what we forgot! I've also been taught that the running back should be as far back as possible (more leverage), but that they should form an isosceles triangle with the baby stay?? A PITA to be sure....but when the winds pipe up, I'm very glad to have the S/S rigged, on a roller furler, and ready to go! Our 135% Jib is just to big and the S/S keeps the center of effort where it needs to be.

[sailor1924]

Back when I had a cutter ketch we had Highfield levers on both the main and the mizzen. The mizzen runners only needed to be set when we flew a mizzen staysail, but we had to tack the main staysail runners whenever the wind was forward and the wind got to be above 20 knots.
We found the worst difficulty was carrying the lee runners forward and securing them to the aftermost shroud. Eventually, we rigged a long length of 1/2 inch shock cord through a ring seized to the aft shroud that would pull the runner forward when the Highfield was released and made handling the tacking of the staysail more manageable.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Some cutters are setup with (permanent, not runners) stays to support the staysail just aft of the aft lower stay chainplate. Never heard of a problem with that.

That arrangement adds compression to the rig needlessly. Runners attached further aft do a better job of counteracting the staysail stay.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

That arrangement adds compression to the rig needlessly. Runners attached further aft do a better job of counteracting the staysail stay.

Reading this another thought occurs to me.

Our staysail stay is, like many others, easily detachable. A permanent set of stays pulling against the staysail stay would be a problem if you removed the staysail stay. On balance, I would take the inconvenience of the removable backstays if it allows me to clear the foredeck of the staysail stay, which I only use during the "frequent sailing" parts of the year. (About 3 months in total)

Matt

[waltdrechsler]

We just bought a Moody 47 with running back stays. I'm excited to learn how I can use them and this exchange was very helpful. I believe my boat also has what I believe are "jumpers"? Two spreaders swept forward at about the staysail height. The running back stays have a line that pulls them up to the mast when not in use. Seems like a pretty sweet set up. I'm learning a lot. Keep it coming!

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by SteelCruiser

A friend just showed me over his Roberts 38.
He is not very experienced sailor; told me he has never raised the mainsail.

Hi Steelcruiser,
Many respondents came up the basic info that you required, but then went on to discuss a lot of other technical issues regarding various types of rigging. What they missed was the fact that your friend seems to be a complete novice who is attempting to teach himself to sail. This is a brave but foolish, potentially expensive and possibly life-threatening enterprise, both for that person himself, any crew-member on board and maybe innocent bystanders. To see someone starting off to with a 38-footer, in which to learn from scratch just makes the mind boggle; "...he has never raised his mainsail", FGS!
What he needs to do is take a beginners' course at a sailing school, at the end of which he will recognise that there is a whole lot more to learn. At this point he should practise using his own boat, in sheltered waters, to reinforce what he has learned so far, for a couple of weeks, then sign up for the next level course, not forgetting that he also needs to learn about about Navigation, the Collision Regulations, Tides, Safety, Maintenance, etc,etc,etc. He could do this on line, but doing it in a classroom environment is much more beneficial. Only then will he begin to discover what he can and cannot do with his boat, and how to derive satisfaction and pleasure from doing so.
Over here two weeks of tuition would cost about €1200, probably about the same in US$ and would probably save him about two seasons of uninformed, dangerous experimentation.

[Tudorsailor]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread.

On my 49 ft with inmast furling and cutter rig I have a jumper strut in lieu of running back stays. I love the staysail and never wished for running back stays

I am currently sailing to Bermuda in a 62ft with cutter rig , inmast furling and running backstays. The skipper says that when sailing with the staysail and no Genoa he never has the main out further than having the top of the main level with top of the staysail. Is this generally accepted advice?

Just curious

TS

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Tudorsailor

Apologies for resurrecting this thread.



On my 49 ft with inmast furling and cutter rig I have a jumper strut in lieu of running back stays. I love the staysail and never wished for running back stays



I am currently sailing to Bermuda in a 62ft with cutter rig , inmast furling and running backstays. The skipper says that when sailing with the staysail and no Genoa he never has the main out further than having the top of the main level with top of the staysail. Is this generally accepted advice?



Just curious



TS

It’s conservative practice that helps prevent the rig doing something bad. The mainsail leech pulling back helps to support the staysail that is pulling forward. It doesn’t really matter that the top of the mainsail is exactly even with the staysail stay - it could be a metre below or above and still provide decent support.

But if he also has running backstays then he doesn’t need to use the main to support the staysail - that’s what the running backstays are for. If he sets the windward running backstay to support the staysail then he can unfurl the mainsail more.