sail handling, lazyjacks vs. stackpack vs. ???

[farotherside]

hey all,

I'm currently shopping for a new set of sails for my little Islander 34, getting her ready for an extended voyage from California north to Canada for the summer, then south again in the fall down all the way to Ecuador, and if the kitty still has anything in it, headed west into the South Pacific.

I've been singlehanding her a lot, and I built up a set of home-made lazyjacks last summer which made a *huge* difference in putting up and taking down the mainsail quickly. now I'm buying her new sails, and I've been looking hard at maybe installing a stackpack system.

my only worry is that a standard stackpack doesn't seem to be removable for longer passages, and several people have mentioned that chafe is a real problem. is there such thing as a stackpack that can be removed and stowed on long passages? I'm *mostly* going to be doing lots of daysailing and overnighters and short passages in the next six months, so a stackpack would be really nice to have for those, but I also want to plan for the longer journeys...

any input or opinions are welcome!

[John_Trusty]

I saw the Mack Pack at a boat show, and it appears that this is independently attached on the boom. Salesman said that covers are fully removable for extended passage. The attractive thing for me was a optional bail on the boom end that would hold the shape of the after cover making it easier to use. They do require you use their lazy jacks, which is additional expense for you. Mack Pack – Mack Sails

[silversailor]

Originally Posted by drew23

hey all,

I'm currently shopping for a new set of sails for my little Islander 34, getting her ready for an extended voyage from California north to Canada for the summer, then south again in the fall down all the way to Ecuador, and if the kitty still has anything in it, headed west into the South Pacific.

I've been singlehanding her a lot, and I built up a set of home-made lazyjacks last summer which made a *huge* difference in putting up and taking down the mainsail quickly. now I'm buying her new sails, and I've been looking hard at maybe installing a stackpack system.

my only worry is that a standard stackpack doesn't seem to be removable for longer passages, and several people have mentioned that chafe is a real problem. is there such thing as a stackpack that can be removed and stowed on long passages? I'm *mostly* going to be doing lots of daysailing and overnighters and short passages in the next six months, so a stackpack would be really nice to have for those, but I also want to plan for the longer journeys...

any input or opinions are welcome!

My 37' Hanse was equipped with a stack pack system to handle its large loose footed main. It had a bolt rope which attached it to the boom. As a result I could not remove it without also removing the main sail. For distance races I would untie the lazy jacks, move them to the mast and then roll up each side of the stack pack bag around its internal batten and tie them to the boom with bungies. With new sails being delivered this spring I needed to find a stack pack system that would allow me to (1) minimize the profile of the bag for short races and (2) easily remove the stack pack bag for distance races. I searched every canvas maker, sail maker and sites that Google discovered and no commercially available stack pack accomplished these two simple objectives. So, I have designed my own. As incredibly simple solution which I firmly believe will work well and, in addition, be reasonable to have made by any canvas shop. I have a drawing of my system which I will share with anyone who is interested. Just send me a PM with your email address.

[cpt_757]

Dutchman system looks good, too.

[roverhi]

Have never really liked the stack pack for aethetic reasons as every boat I've ever seen equipped with one sailing has this ugly blue bag hanging at the foot of the main. You may be able to bundle it up against the boom and partially hide it but no one seems to. If the lazy jacks associated with the stack pack can't be pulled forward, It will make raising the main a pain. Deployed lazy jacks ALWAYS get hung up on the battens on a full batten main. Clearing the lazy jacks requires raising and lowering the main to try and catch the lazy jacks lines when they aren't in the way, PITA. If there was an easy way to bring the lazy jacks forward to the mast without dismantling them, that would take away the hang up issue.

Also question the reliability of the zippers that close the stack pack when the sail is stowed. There are two boats in my marina with stack packs and both apparently have broken zippers. The Packs have been left open since the first time I remarked on them exposing the sail to UV.

Keep the lazy jacks stowed forward at the mast till I need them to drop the sail. They are out of the way their when hoisting the main, aren't disrupting the airflow over the sail, and don't chafe on the sail. Really easy to stow them at the mast, just hook them around their cleat and cinch up. Made the lazy jacks up myself using brass rings, a few eyes on the boom, a couple of cheek blocks and plastic cleats on the mast. Biggest expense was the 1/4" line.

[Pendragon35]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Keep the lazy jacks stowed forward at the mast till I need them to drop the sail. They are out of the way their when hoisting the main, aren't disrupting the airflow over the sail, and don't chafe on the sail. Really easy to stow them at the mast, just hook them around their cleat and cinch up. Made the lazy jacks up myself using brass rings, a few eyes on the boom, a couple of cheek blocks and plastic cleats on the mast. Biggest expense was the 1/4" line.

I have an Alberg 35, similar to the Pearson 35. I'm planning to make up some lazy jacks this spring and rig them. I'd love to see a diagram or have more info on your set up. jeaton237 at gmail.com is my email, or just post here and I'll check back.

[barnakiel]

We used to have lazyjacks and I used stackpacks on other boats.

I only like lazyjacks when the battens are full length. I find lazyjacks and short battens a nightmare to handle.

Cheers,
b.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by Pendragon35

I have an Alberg 35, similar to the Pearson 35. I'm planning to make up some lazy jacks this spring and rig them. I'd love to see a diagram or have more info on your set up. jeaton237 at gmail.com is my email, or just post here and I'll check back.

I used a plan from the Pearson 35 website. Unfortunately that site has been down for awhile though someone is supposedly resurrecting it. He may not have all the pictures of modifications and additions that were on the old website.

Will try and describe the system I built. Put two cheek blocks on the mast about half way between spreaders and masthead and cleats on either side of the mast. The LJ lines run up the mast from the cleat to the cheek blocks and back down with a ring on the end. Ran a line from about the forward third of the boom to the ring and back to another ring. another line runs from about 4' in from the boom end up through the ring and back down to the boom about midway between the aft and forward line padeyes. From Memory used about 200' of 1/4" dacron braid for the LJs. They've worked fine but would put the cheek blocks even higher on the mast and move the padeye for the aft line out to about 3' from the end of the sail. The LJs don't corral the leach end of the sail as well as I'd like. Moving the line further aft hopefully would solve the problem.

[Dusty Mac]

If you want to be able to remove the stack pack, install some awning track to the boom each side. It comes in aluminum or plastic and takes a bolt rope. This will allow you to slide out the cover for long distance trips. You can still use your lazy jacks attached to the boom.
Hope this helps.

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by silversailor

My 37' Hanse was equipped with a stack pack system to handle its large loose footed main. It had a bolt rope which attached it to the boom. As a result I could not remove it without also removing the main sail. For distance races I would untie the lazy jacks, move them to the mast and then roll up each side of the stack pack bag around its internal batten and tie them to the boom with bungies. With new sails being delivered this spring I needed to find a stack pack system that would allow me to (1) minimize the profile of the bag for short races and (2) easily remove the stack pack bag for distance races. I searched every canvas maker, sail maker and sites that Google discovered and no commercially available stack pack accomplished these two simple objectives. So, I have designed my own. As incredibly simple solution which I firmly believe will work well and, in addition, be reasonable to have made by any canvas shop. I have a drawing of my system which I will share with anyone who is interested. Just send me a PM with your email address.

Like you I designed my own, and had it made by professional upholsterer for less than half the Sailmakers quoted price. I had the boom boltrope problem and got around it by sewing slugs along the foot of the sail. the male/female straps now pass under the boltrope/ over the boom. I can unsnap and remove the sail pack in a few minutes. the lazy jacks are attached to the upper edge with St. Steel sister hook pairs.. Take the lazy jacks fwd to the aft lower , and clean sail ready to race in 5 mins.

[sea1ljs]

I have an Endeavour 43 cc ketch to which I made my own lazy jack and stack pack system. The lazy jack system is really easy to make. I used 3 strand line and just spliced the ends to the right length as needed. They're clipped onto the stack pack for removal when needed. Never had to remove them...so far. The stack pack consists of a panel on each side of the boom. They are attached via bolt rope to guides mounted on each side of the boom for easy removal. Never had to remove them. When under sail the panels just "float" away from the sail. As far as chafing, I could see where the lazy jacks could be an issue but since they're removable that problem goes away. With the lazy jacks moved forward to the mast the stack pack can either be slid off the boom or rolled up an stored against the boom. The one thing I worked on with the stack pack system was fitting the side panels with just enough material to cover the sail and not having big, excessive sized panels that look like a sail unto themselves. You see that with "one size fits all" systems and they come out way too bulky. The other thing I stayed away from was the long zipper to close up the stack pack. I added a panel to one side of the stack pack that folds over the top of the sail, then pinch the two side together which is then held in place with a SS "S" hook. Sailrite has all the materials you would need for the project and it's not that hard to do. You will really appreciate the system the next time you drop the main in 20kts and don't have to screw around with a loose mainsail. Good Luck

[JPA Cate]

If the attachment for the upper ends of the lazy jacks is placed about 2/3 outboard on the lower spreaders, the "mouth" of the sailbag and LJs stays open. Thirteen years with this arrangement, it is satisfactory, and chafe has not been a problem.

As to broken zippers, if they are not covered by a flap, the teeth UV degrade and the zip fails. The obvious solution is in the design. If you're sewing it yourself, it can even be an add-on flap to cover it. Our old zip (12 yrs use) is still in good enough nick for us to have kept it when we built our new boom bag last year.



Ann

[sea1ljs]

Hi Ann,

Yes to the open throat design on the LJs. I have mine attached a little closer to the mast, maybe 1/4 out, it works. The mast end of the stack pack also directs air flow down the boom.