Sail material for long term cruising both tropics and higher latitudes - performance

[wingssail]

With a high performance 55' cat I'd think you would want to have strong and well shaped sails. To do that it dacron would result in very heavy weight, plus, even with a warp oriented cloth and triradial construction the shape will not last forever. There are many advocates of Hyda-net but I guess it would depend on the price, they seem marginally better than dacron but much more expensive.

I cruise with dacron and replace it periodically. Asian made sails are cheap. I tolerate the lower efficiency of these sails.

For racing I use membrane sails strung with carbon. The durability so far is good (3 years), and from Sri Lanka or China they are not too expensive. But I would not use them for cruising (They are precious to me and I just don't want to abuse them).

A good cruising laminate seems to like an appropriate (economical) choice for you. A triradial cut can be cheaper if made in a country with cheap labor.

Look for a new technology cruising laminate with technora or dyneema and with dyneema taffeta on both sides.

For the economics, decide if you want the service and product back-up of an good national or international loft vs the significant cost savings of a mail order factory (where there is little or no service and you bear all the risk). I have been buying Chinese sails from offshore factories for many years and have had excellent luck with both racing sails and cruising sails.

[Lambretta]

I can recommend Norlam sails made by North Sails ...... They are priced between their Dacron and Spectra ......... but IMHO are significantly better than dacron and marginally less so than Spectra.
However the one thing that I think a lot of people overlook is the significant weight saving of these sails and where this weight saving takes place (beside the better sail performance)
Our Norlam sails weighed in approx 40% less than the same sails done in dacron
We used the New Norlam for our Main, Genoa and Code Zero (different weight cloth to the main and genoa) and went with a full symetrical spinny!
I can also highly recommend the reefing blocks made by Antal (that get sown onto the leech) if you are getting new sails made up.
Lastly ....... One thing that I have learnt in many facets of life is that you pay for what you get ........ that is quality always comes at a price
Hope this helps

[mikedefieslife]

The OP has a high performance cat, but his sails aren't huge. In fact his genoa is only about the same size as the one I'm running on my 35' cat.

I agree that Dacron is heavy and won't hold its shape long. That is certainly the case with my genoa.

I've not seen any mention of OneDesigns and their Filmless tech, more specifically the 4T Forte range. No resins or glue, and no mylar. https://www.onesails.com/uk/technolo...forte/4t-forte

I went for their slightly less high spec, Vantage 1 Filmless for my main sail and have been very happy with it in terms of shape and performs.

Just waiting for some bids on my right kidney before order the genoa in a similar material.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Lambretta

I can recommend Norlam sails made by North Sails ...... significantly better than dacron and marginally less so than Spectra.

Norlam is simply laminated dacron. There is no secret sauce there. The Dacron fibers are way lower modulus than Dyneema. The mylar is a commodity, same as used in pretty much ever other laminate sail. Vs woven dacron, it trades the well-known drawbacks of woven material for the well-known drawbacks of mylar lamination.

North does have a dacron 3di (ocean 330) which should in theory beat both the woven and the laminate. But in actual practice, they have had a weight/durability challenge.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by wingssail

With a high performance 55' cat I'd think you would want to have strong and well shaped sails. To do that it dacron would result in very heavy weight, plus, even with a warp oriented cloth and triradial construction the shape will not last forever. There are many advocates of Hyda-net but I guess it would depend on the price, they seem marginally better than dacron but much more expensive.



I cruise with dacron and replace it periodically. Asian made sails are cheap. I tolerate the lower efficiency of these sails.



For racing I use membrane sails strung with carbon. The durability so far is good (3 years), and from Sri Lanka or China they are not too expensive. But I would not use them for cruising (They are precious to me and I just don't want to abuse them).



A good cruising laminate seems to like an appropriate (economical) choice for you. A triradial cut can be cheaper if made in a country with cheap labor.



Look for a new technology cruising laminate with technora or dyneema and with dyneema taffeta on both sides.



For the economics, decide if you want the service and product back-up of an good national or international loft vs the significant cost savings of a mail order factory (where there is little or no service and you bear all the risk). I have been buying Chinese sails from offshore factories for many years and have had excellent luck with both racing sails and cruising sails.

The name brand NZ lofts (Doyles and North) with like for like they’re actually cheaper than the quotes I’ve had for Rolly Tasker and Lee Sails. So I don’t see the point of mail order sails. Weird.

[Kestrahl]

Originally Posted by fxykty

The name brand NZ lofts (Doyles and North) with like for like they’re actually cheaper than the quotes I’ve had for Rolly Tasker and Lee Sails. So I don’t see the point of mail order sails. Weird.

Not to surprising, I get the same when I quote "like for like", for example on a cloth like Hydra-Net or a high grade dacron, possibly because we use more we get a better discount. Where they do well is on the low tenacity dacron's like Fastnet. They get a better rate as they are buying a higher volume. Both North NZ and Doyle are having some sails made in Sri-Lanka which has cheaper low labor cost than Thailand and China, but higher logistical expenses. NZ sailmakers are exporters and from what I have heard very quiet at the moment so its probably a good time to ask for a deal!

[sailjumanji]

We have a 2019 Seawind 1160 Lite. Previous boat was a Seawind 1000 that we replaced six year old Dacron sails with Pentex cruise laminate sails. We had a very good Quantum stack pack, had the sails treated with a mildewcide when new, and they went about 9-10 years before we started getting mildew on the head, clew and tack. They still had great shape, just started looking dingy. We live in Texas, on the coast, and its very humid here.

On the new boat, we wanted sails that kept great shape and moved the boat well. We are subscribers to the "performance life" adage. We were multihull racers for years (two Corsair tris, and even bay and offshore raced the SW1000), and really appreciate a boat that responds to sail trim. And even cruising, we are sailors foremost, and run the motors (twin 25 hp Yamaha's) very little. Having sails that really optimize the performance of the boat allows you to cover more distance, and/or get to that next anchorage sooner or before dark. On the Lite, we pushed the mainsail area and made it a bit more high-aspect than the stock sail, and also extended the jib foot to maximum that would still work with the self-tacking track/traveler. Overall change was that we pushed the center of effort up about 1 foot, but almost kept the same fore/aft position as stock sails. So we didn't introduce any weather helm issues that would be associated with moving the C/E aft. That said, we also reef in 18 knots if water is flat, or 16 knots solid in wavy conditions. (The Lite has a powered winch and single line reefing, so it is a one-person operation.) OTOH, the increased sail area really improved the light wind performance, and allows us to sail when most other boats are motoring.

The material we chose for main and jib was Dimension Polyant GPL Lite Skin. It's considered predominately a racing sail material, but several of the Aussie boats had a lot of ocean voyage time with them, and were very happy with performance. Longevity will always be a question, but one of the racing boats has pushed them hard for five years and says shape is still the same. There is minimal stretch, as the material is carbon. We had a stack pack made with Sunbrella Plus on the top (waterproof), and the sides of regular Sunbrella (that breathes). We offset the zipper, have snap closure in the back - all to keep rain and draining water out of the stack pack, but still allow air flow. Trying to prevent mildew. And when it does start to mildew, at least the sail material wont show it - as its between grey and black. The downside - other than extra cost - is that the Lite Skin is used instead of taffeta (heavy), and the Lite Skin is less abrasion resistant than the taffeta. The sailmaker attached (sewed) Eisenglass panels on the batten pockets at the shroud locations to prevent abrasion, and they appear to be working well. We put about 2300 nm on the sails last year cruising the Bahamas, and then crossing back across the Gulf to Texas. So far the only issue is a little bit of Lite Skin removal at one of the upper batten pockets, due to the topping lift rubbing back and forth when we were reefed in two days of gnarly conditions crossing the Gulf. That'll be fixed with addition of reinforcement.

Finally, I believe David Calvert made some sails using the same material for a Maine Cat 38, and the owner told me he was very happy with them. Maybe Brent or David can comment on their experience with DP GPL Lite Skin.

[Hiva Oa]

Here is our new Nautosphere main for 51' catamaran

Built by Zoom Sails.

[CarlF]

I have sails made of DP ProRadial by Dave Calvert - a crimpless warp polyester that's less expensive than DP's Hydranet - presumably because it doesn't have any dyneema with much less stretch than regular Dacron - including, supposedly, Marblehead.

Only a year old so too early to tell how it will last. It claims to be very UV resistant.

https://www.dimension-polyant.com/po...al-en/?lang=en

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Hiva Oa

Here is our new Nautosphere main for 51' catamaran



Built by Zoom Sails.

We had our last two sails (jib and main) designed and built by Zoom Sails also. Very happy with price, quality and service (only 2 years so too early to tell for longevity). We will definitely use them for future sail purchases.