So all booms use a tipping lift?

[Lucky13]

Originally Posted by Learning Curve

A boom crutch, now that’s a new term. I’ll have to google that thanks.

I've also heard it called a boom gallows.

[Secondshift]

Originally Posted by Spot

Thanks Secondshift for the info and Learning Curve for the detour.


The boom end looks good to accept the topping lift and still 'roll'. The mainsheet attachment to the boom gets covered by sail once the sail is rolled so that is a problem unless moved elsewhere. Seems like many off the owners have forsaken the roller boom for other methods of reefing.

With the mid boom sheet attachment a piece of fabric with a grommet or ring is wound in with the sail. A qd shackle would help. Can't imagine trying to deal with a loose boom in a blow. I'd definitely reef early.

Edit: Just found an item listed as a "reefing claw" that would allow additional adjustment without rolling/unrolling the sail to move the fabric attachment .

[TrentePieds]

Learning Curve:

As in so many things regarding sailing, and specifically in regard to boat handling, there is no one answer, no one "right way". to do things. It all depends on HOW you sail, and WHERE you sail.

You will find that in a tiny boat like yours, a PROPER topping lift is often missing, and a makeshift device replaces it, specifically a short wire fixed to the backstay that by means of a carbine hook clips onto some sort of eye or brail on the end of the boom. The boat builder's reason for using this arrangement is that it is cheap. The boat owner's reason is most often lack of knowledge and forethought.

Don't take that comment too hard - we are, none of us, born knowing how to sail or how to rig a boat :-)

There are three kinds of topping lifts: The running topping lift, the standing topping lift and the non-existent topping lift. IMO only the first of these three is acceptable in a cruising boat because it is an ESSENTIAL safety device!

A proper topping lift, a running topping lift, is affixed to the boom-end whence it leads through a SWIVEL block on a crane at the masthead, thence to a cleat at the foot of the mast. The reason for that setup is that the boom has to serve - in a cruising boat - not only as a device for supporting the foot of the sail, but ALSO as a CARGO BOOM by means of which you can hoist heavy things aboard.

What heavy things? Well - people. Incapacitated people. Man-over-board-type-people! I can guarantee you that there is NO way in Hades that you can singlehanded, without mechanical aids, lift an incapacitated man, or even a child, whether dead or alive, out of the water and up over your rail to get a MOB back aboard. Do go conduct that experiment where it is safe to do so without risking the "victim's" life. You won't be able to do it!

Now, with a running topping lift, long enuff that you can take the falls of it back through a turning block at the bottom of the mast to one of your sheet winches, you can do the job with ease, singlehanded, if the MOB is wearing the appropriate safety harness to which a "pennant" (a short piece of line twixt boom end and harness) can be attached for the purposes of hoisting. The block at the masthead HAS to be a swivel block to allow for the boom being wung out without "derailing" the line in the block or causing excess friction.

As I said above, don't take it too hard that you didn't know that. You have lots of company :-) Those kinds of things are things you learn during an active seafaring life in boats that are well found because they are the boats of experienced sailors.

We are fortunate here on CF to have a goodly number of men and women that have, as they said in the Indian Army, "seen the elephant". Listen to them, and on the basis of what you learn from them, think things through on your own. There is nothing mystical or difficult about seafaring. There is a lot that is not immediately obvious to the lubber. Even to boat-owning lubbers. In regard to every piece of gear aboard your own boat you should be able to state succinctly what it is FOR and how you USE it. In regard to every piece of gear you find on a well-found boat, but that is not aboard your own, you should be able to state succinctly the reason it has been omitted.

Now, a Sonata 7 is not the sort of thing you take out "where the scattered waters rave and the winds their revels keep", so while you can learn the basics of boat handling in her, there are VAST ranges of knowledge she cannot help you to acquire. Only a grown-up boat can do that. Until you get one of those, use your time to read, to study and to imagine. We here on CF will be happy to help you in any way we can. So bring your specific questions to us when they arise if you haven't already found an answer in the literature or by sailing in OPBs.

Best of luck,

TrentePieds

[TrentePieds]

LC:

Just now I see the comment about the boom gallows aka a boom crutch. That is NOT a piece of gear used at sea while under way. Doing so is dangerous! A gallows is a piece of gear used ONLY for doing what is called a "harbour stow". The boom is let down (by means of a running topping lift) into the gallows where it is secured by a lashing. Then the sail is furled on top of the boom in what is called a "harbour furl" and held in place on the boom by means of short lines or tapes called "gaskets". This must be done neatly, one fold of the bunt of the sail to the starboard side of the boom, the next to the port side and so on alternately till you are done. The whole kit'n'kaboodle is then encased in a sail cover to keep sunlight off the canvas. The sail cover has it's edges hanging free so the may lead rainwater away from the canvas. In consequence the tapes that are tied under the boom to hold the cover in place are attached some inches in from the edges of the cover so these edges may hang free to form a "drip".

Cheers

TP

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Just now I see the comment about the boom gallows aka a boom crutch. That is NOT a piece of gear used at sea while under way. Doing so is dangerous! A gallows is a piece of gear used ONLY for doing what is called a "harbour stow".

Undskyldninger for mit svar TP, but something is wrong with your statement.

Would you believe that I have a cruising boat, in which we've crossed oceans and seas, that has no topping lift but does have a boom gallows?

A boom gallows is not a boom crutch. Two different ways of supporting a boom. A boom crutch is more likely to be temporary and only used in harbour.

A boom gallows is a different thing.

Here're a few authoritative quotes (you can use an internet search to find the sources, should you wish to illuminate yourself):

"The boom gallows supports the main boom when it is not in use in port, sometimes when reefing, and especially to strap down the boom in storm conditions"

"A strong gallows is vitally important at sea, being worth more than a couple of men when it comes to capturing a swinging boom"

"A permanent boom gallows is almost a necessity when sailing shorthanded"

Furthermore, there are more ways of lifting and supporting a boom that you imagine.

In addition to those mentioned (topping lift, lifting vang, boom crutch, boom gallows, backstay strap and hook) is lazy lifts, a modification of lazy jacks with a support/lift function.

Just so happens that Led Myne has lazy lifts AND a boom gallows.

Note: also just so happens that Led Myne has never been in harbour in Bogense, Nordfyn, but my crew and I have.

mvh

[winschwab]

If all you want to do is hold the boom off the deck when the main is down, you can use the main halyard.

[TrentePieds]

Åh, jeg be'r, Alan :-)

I'm happy to accept that you “have a cruising boat, in which we've crossed oceans and seas, that has no topping lift but does have a boom gallows?” There is obviously no reason you shouldn't do that, if that's your pleasure. My argument is simply this: Doing so deprives you of both flexibility in general and of a desirable safety feature in particular. But à chacun son goût :-)

Quote: “A boom gallows is not a boom crutch. Two different ways of supporting a boom. A boom crutch is more likely to be temporary and only used in harbour....A boom gallows is a different thing.”

Well no – they are not different ways of supporting the boom. The distinction twixt the two is that a gallows is a permanent part of the boat's gear often tiddlied up with carvings of dolphins and fouled anchors and gamboling mermaids. The crutch is just that – a crutch that helps an injured boat just as a crutch helps an injured man. It is temporary, and in boats like yours and mine, a coupla 2be4s lashed together at the crotch will do just fine while neat things, such as rigging a running topping lift, are being done :-)

Quote: “Here're a few authoritative quotes (you can use an internet search to find the sources, should you wish to illuminate yourself):

"The boom gallows supports the main boom when it is not in use in port, sometimes when reefing, and especially to strap down the boom in storm conditions"

"A strong gallows is vitally important at sea, being worth more than a couple of men when it comes to capturing a swinging boom"

"A permanent boom gallows is almost a necessity when sailing shorthanded"

I'm sorry to say that the normally so helpful Ms. Google came up empty handed this time. Not that it matters, for there is obviously not anything inconsistent in your quote with what I said. Reefing is one kind of evolution, furling is another. The gear and procedure required to perform the one evolution efficiently, elegantly and securely is different from the procedure and gear required to perform the other.

Quote: “Furthermore, there are more ways of lifting and supporting a boom that you imagine”

Really??? How do you know what I imagine?.

Quote: “In addition to those mentioned (topping lift, lifting vang, boom crutch, boom gallows, backstay strap and hook) is lazy lifts, a modification of lazy jacks with a support/lift function...Just so happens that Led Myne has lazy lifts AND a boom gallows.”

Well there we have it then :-) As you say: Lazy lifts are functionally a topping lift, though rigged somewhat differently. I can't imagine – oops, there I go again with my imaginings - that you would “ cross..oceans and seas” without your lazy lifts, would you :-)?

Quote: “Note: also just so happens that Led Myne has never been in harbour in Bogense, Nordfyn, but my crew and I have”.

As for the metropolis of Bogense... Hmmm... Google Earth tells me that Bogense is now a half-decent marina with a bit of a town attached. When I lived something less than 10 clicks from Bogense during that spot of bother we had some years ago with that bizarre Austrian corporal, Bogense was a bit of a town with a fishing harbour attached. So plus ça change, I would imagine. Every nation has some demographic group that gets mercilessly dumped on. Here in Canada it is the Newfoundlanders, the “Newfies”. When I was a lad in Nordfyn it was the people of Bogense. “How many Bogensemen does it take to change a lightbulb (Yes, we DID have them!)?”. “Seven – one to hold the bulb, six to turn the ladder”

Ha' det godt :-)!

TP

[Patrigo]

Thirty years ago I bought my Adams 28. It had a vang and topping lift. First or second sail the boom rendered me momentarily unconscious during an uncontrolled jibe. The next day I raised the gooseneck 300mm. I also fitted a sturdy boom gallows with three boom positions which it nestles in, held by mainsheet tension. When motoring, or lightly sailing I can stand on a cockpit seat, steer with my foot and rest my chin on my folded arms supported by the gallows. Very comfortable There is adequate height under the gallows for me to comfortably forget about it. Also the gallows gives me physical support at the wheel in heavy weather. Topping lift went where all tp's should go and I fitted a gas strut. Eventually got sick of the gas strut's laziness and fitted a Barton Boomstrut. For those that do not have a BB, your quality of life would achieve a higher level if you owned one.
To sum up, I have complete up, down and athwartships control of my boom at all times unhindered by the mainsheet traveller which is on a traveller arch forward of the main hatch.
Maybe I have rambled on a bit outside the thread, but I am still in awe of how well the system operates, and had to cut loose!

[stnick]

When ya say all in sailboats your most likely to find someone outside the ALL basket !

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Secondshift

With the mid boom sheet attachment a piece of fabric with a grommet or ring is wound in with the sail. A qd shackle would help. Can't imagine trying to deal with a loose boom in a blow. I'd definitely reef early.

Edit: Just found an item listed as a "reefing claw" that would allow additional adjustment without rolling/unrolling the sail to move the fabric attachment .

Thanks. I have seen those for sale at a salvage yard just listed as a 'boom vang', good to know the more descriptive name for the hardware.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

Having a tipping lift could greatly help to righten the boat again, one would think? I just need to find that elusive sky hook to attach it to.


But in all seriousness, I agree that tying the boom to the back stay is a recipe for disaster.

Only use is at rest, no mainsail up.
SV Cloud Duster

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by dennismenace111

My boat has a really different topping lift... Ive never seen another like it.... the topping lift runs from a cleat at the base of the mast.... into the boom at the goose neck and then out the boom at the clew and up to the top of the mast where it firmly attaches to the top of the mast. There is a cam cleat at the goose neck. This rig is awkward at best and is on my list of things to change in the near future...Id rather have a standard topping lift that is more like a halyard and can be used as such as backup to the mainsail halyard.

My boat has a similar arrangement. The topping lift is in two pieces, though, a wire from the top of the mast to a foot or so above the end of the boom. When I got the boat there was a two foot long line from the eye at the end of the wire, that could be tied to the boom. I replaced it with a block and a longer line that runs to the gooseneck where it's cleated off. Not the greatest arrangement, but workable.