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tomtriad · 18-08-2023, 06:59

Thumbs up for Zoom sails. Phil made a very high quality 580 sf triradial main of DP SXI for my 42' trimaran for $6k including shipping. He reused my old hardware ( batten receptacles, slides, triple joints, headboard, etc) and made a very nice job of it. Half the price of Doyle and with a superior fabric to boot. He is competent, responsive, and makes a good sail.

A friend of mine uses Hydranet on his St. Francis 50 catamaran and is very pleased with the result.

nfbr · 18-08-2023, 10:04

Simpson original design built in BNE in ‘93 about 58-60ft. Shakedown to bass straight at 24knts SOG showed handling deficiencies. Crowther bought in and designed new longer bows with different profiles. Bows cut off 3mth old boat diagonally at the trampoline, discarded and built new. Joop was fussy. Sails well now for a family offshore cruiser. Duracore hull.
Currently in Med motoring

nfbr · 18-08-2023, 10:06

Yeah, we got the pics. And Joops naturist pics came with her too. Great.

nfbr · 18-08-2023, 10:10

Med sailing
Yanmar mainsail

Chrisatlantic · 18-08-2023, 14:25

I have a Quantum 100 square meter main for my Atlantic 55, built in radial Hydranet. Replaced a 2014 vintage 3Di from North. I almost pulled the trigger on SXI dyneema cruising laminate, but decided I wanted more durability and dependability, thoughI thought the SXI would be the best of the cruising laminates. My main weighs about 100 kg, about twice the weight of the 3Di. Shape, construction and details are great. Highly recommended.

You do NOT want to have the sail on and off the boat getting stuff corrected but a local lost that has had nothing to do with building your sail and no incentive to solve your problems.

Most important part? Choosing the right salesman who will measure and properly speed the sail, make sure it’s built correctly, deliver and install it with you and stand behind his components work. I’m happy to pass along a referral to the guy I use, Kerry Klingler.

My sail was built at the large production facility Quantum uses in Sri Lanka, which also manufactures for Dave Calvert who I have talked with as well and would happily buy a sail from had I not had good past experiences with Quantum and gotten a competitive quote.

pbmaise · 18-08-2023, 17:22

When I was in Phuket I met with two CAD designers at Tasker. They prepared all the drawings that went to clients and to the production floor. At the time, these two individuals were located to the far left on the production floor away from the entrance. They basically told me I could have anything I wanted and I could look over their shoulder at the various options.

The front office people didn't have this ability.

Where I went wrong is when Mike Tasker (no relationship) stepped in and was concerned about the weight of the cloth for a vessel of my size. I ended up with a far heavier, and expensive, sail than I needed.

Given the size of this investment, I might consider in your shoes making the trek to the factory in Phuket.

Based on the size of your vessel, I don't recommend Hyde Sails in Cebu. I found their services best when it came to a recut of my sails, owing to playing with mast location and size. I wouldn't trust them with the entire sail itself especially if you are thinking of anything but dacron.

A trip to the factory will add perhaps $1500 cost to your sails which likely will be worth the piece of mind and will net out zero added cost compared to other sail lofts with a higher labor cost.

Chotu · 18-08-2023, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfbr

Med sailing
Yanmar mainsail

I feel this pain also! Ha ha ha.

It’s terrible motoring around everywhere because your rig or sails aren’t ready/done isn’t it?

cottonsail · 18-08-2023, 18:22

I'm just a cruiser. Once upon a time I was a nut case racer. As a cruiser I needed sails for my boat. The boat is a Swallow Craft Swift 33. Only 3 came to the USA. I did a lot of research. And I mean a lot. Cheapest that would not fall apart were all made in Hong Kong. I could buy direct if I wanted. Wire transferring money overseas scares me. I bought from Bacon sails in Annapolis Md. I could have saved $200. if I bought directly. Call it insurance. The mainsail had a problem. Their Annapolis loft fixed it immediately. Had I bought directly? UGH! The sails are now 7 years old and still performing well. I recommend Bacon for new sails.

sailingharry · 18-08-2023, 20:03

3di cruising is a fabulous material for head sails. After 8,000 miles it is still as flexible as a plastic milk jug. Which makes it great for furling sails, but not for sails that drop on the boom. I have friends that have it for the main sale and are not very happy.

My main sail is hydranet, probably over a decade old, has two transatlantics and at least one trip to the Caribbean, and then another 8,000 miles since we bought the boat. I'm starting to think about a replacement, and it will be hydranet. One advantage of Hydranet on big sails like yours is it is lighter than an equivalent Dacron sail.

I've tried to talk to local sail makers for a quote, they won't return calls. The guy on sailing totem is a former sail maker and now does mail order. He has given me probably five or six emails as we work through a quote. I haven't pulled the trigger, but his support has been far better than anybody local.

fxykty · 18-08-2023, 23:06

HydraNet can be very long-lived - the jib and mainsail were both triradial HydraNet and had 9 years and 40K ocean miles when we replaced them. The main was baggy as hell between the battens and at the reefs (the reefs weren’t reinforced properly) but the material itself was still in good condition - it was the stitching that was going. The self tacking jib was in better condition and still had, mostly, its original shape, though with a hooked leech.

In NZ the quotes we got from local big name sailmakers (North, Doyle, Evolution) were basically the same for triradial HydraNet, high modulus laminate, and high modulus membrane. We ended up going with membrane sails from Zoom for less than half the cost. With dual polyester taffetas they are no lighter than the HydraNetsails they replaced, but oh so much stiffer and they just stay in their designed shape.

HydraNet material is relatively expensive and I think would do better cross cut rather than triradial. I don’t think it’s suitable for catamarans due to their higher loading, but small and mid-sized monohulls are fine. The material is a big step up from 100% polyester. A slightly cheaper alternative is Contender Hybrid.

sailingharry · 19-08-2023, 06:38

Fxykty,

As I mentioned, I'm shopping for a main also, for a 43' mono. I'm a recovering racer on a cruisers budget, so I'm constantly seeking "budget performance" grade products. LOL.

I love my 3di Cruising jibs, as the price/performance/durability equation is pretty awesome. But they don't drop on a boom, as I mentioned.

I've been leaning really hard toward a new Hydranet sail. Jamie at Zoom has quoted $9K delivered for one. Curiously, while we had several emails back and forth about my needs, he never mentioned laminate (or maybe I had made it clear I didn't want laminate? LOL).

So, my question. You went from Hydranet to laminate. You appear to drop your main on the boom (no mast or boom furler). You commented that it is stiff. You sail your boat hard and often. At the end of the day:
* Are you still happy with the laminate?
* Do you have any issues with mildew?
* Are you expecting similar longevity to the 40K miles you got on Hydranet? Or even half that (since they are half the price?)
* How do you handle storage? StackPack? Lazy Jacks? Dutchman? Is the sail too stiff to drop in a StackPack? I know a Dutchman can help with stiff sails (like my 3di Cruising), but I don't like the Dutchman. Your profile picture seems to have a StackPack.

Chrisatlantic · 19-08-2023, 10:56

I disagree with the stiff 3Di mainsail comment, mine was as soft as you are going to get with a material that will hold its shape with the loading that is put on it by a boat with over a 1000 sq ft opposed by the righting moment of an Abrams Tank. My new Hydranet radial sail is MUCH stiffer but is still fairly new. I expect any equally strong cruising laminate would be as stiff or stiffer and not have the durability/reliability of the Hydranet. I had two failures of the 3Di, the first forcing me to sail around in the first reef for a month before I could get it to a loft for a massive band-aid and the second was a failure above the second reef clew which was its death knell with replacement by motorsailing or spinnaker only downwinders. The adhesive that binds the fibers has, or at least had, a finite life. That said, I expect it is as long and as strong as any other laminate or membrane sail on the market, but doubtful it will equal the Hydranet and are a very high cost.

To be clear, I am a life long racer and worked as a sailmaker for nine years before deciding I’d rather make a living;-)

One other point about Hydranet… the Dimension Polyant guys will tell you, and the sailmakers I’ve talked with agree, that the warp oriented flavor of Hydranet is very different from and vastly superior to the fill-oriented cross cut version.

To round out the discussion, I did a similar construction radial Hydranet Solent jib which can be roller reefed and a carbon/aramid Fusion string genoa which can be roller fueled but is not intended to be roller reefed. My boat loves this sail upwind up to 15 or 16 knots true and reaching in more, as it did the 3Di genoa that that preceded it.

Good luck with your sail purchase, make sure that your sailmaker is detail oriented and puts in the time and effort to understand your boat and your requirements and is committed to satisfying them.