Spin w/Top Down Furler or Code 0 on Free-Flying Furler

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by davecalvert

The Code 0 will have a bit longer luff, quite a bit longer foot, and a fuller shape compared to a screacher that trims inside the shrouds. Areas, in most cases, will be about 30% or more larger than a screacher. Code 0s work especially well on cats with small self tacking jibs.

That makes sense. And that's us (self tacking jib). Thanks Dave

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Ferrari

We’ve recently switched from a Sock to Top Down asymmetrical on my cutter rigged sloop. Using the heaviest gear for both torque rope and furler (GX25 I think) from Selden.
Love it and would never go back!
The flexibility and simplicity of use is amazing, it cuts motoring to a minimum and is far safer to use on a fore deck than a sock.
I’m told correct tension of the torque rope is critical so have always held that in mind. Must be straight. No bows.
Hope this helps you.
F

What size sail?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

...

Soooo, I guess the question becomes is there a hybrid sail that we can run on a "anti torque rope" furler that is going to be flat enough for light air reaching, but large enough to slack off the luff and the sheet to get moving downwind. (And yes, I know it won't be as good downwind as an A3.) Maybe that is a screacher, but I was hoping for something more downwind capable.

...

I use an UPS from Doyle for that.

UPS (Utility Power Sail) - Doyle Caribbean

Ours is a custom job (I worked at Doyle back then) in nylon 1.5 oz (@ 400 sq ft). Luff is held bar tight for upwind work and then eased for broader angles. A useful sail I think that somehow did not get a single day of use on our most recent W to E Atlantic passage ...

Maybe if we had it on a torque rope furler then it would be a different story.

So it all depends on how you sail and where.

Cheers,
b.

[Howler]

We have an Ullman A1.5 1,400 sq. ft. asymmetrical with a Selden GX top down furler system on a 41’ sloop. It’s great. Covers beam reach to 150+ and makes downwind fast for a cruiser that would be sluggish otherwise. So far furling and unfurling works fine. Takes a while compared to the Selden video. We opted for the adjustable tack swivel which allows sailing even deeper.

Good:
- You can hoist it at the dock.
- You can set it and forget it.
- You can furl to gybe (as long as nobody’s watching.)
- It’s comfortable up to 15 knots (haven’t tried more).

Issues:
- It’s heavy to carry to the bow with all the extra furling hardware that stays attached.
- It’s useless under 7 knots of wind.
- The splice on the continuous furling line snags in the double block. Just remove the bails and it works fine.

Like many have said, if it’s going to give you trouble it’s likely in conditions that it shouldn’t be used in. I wouldn’t trust it in much more than 15 knots. Keep the anti torsion line taught.

I believe Harken has a lighter weight solution.

[SaltyMetals]

Howler, i agree w everything you say. I strughled on the foredeck w socks for spi and gennaker and now find the top down furler so much better. While i have the option i have set mine up with a fixed strop at the tack i stead of variable. Simpler that way. Still gives me 90-155 AWA. I sually close it at 16-17 kn True Wind speed, not that it cannot take more but am usually short-handed or solo and prefer not to invite problems. I use a Karver furler w th continuous line back to the cockpit and worked on an electric winch (a lot of winching to furl my 1,150 sq ft, so yrs must be even more).

Initially with the supplied furling line the splice would jam in the furler so i changed down 2mm and all was resolved. Interesting challenge for a continuous line splice w braid on braid.......

I still find i get a reverse wrap on bottom 1/3 and not yet found the trick to avoid it. Dont ghink it has anything to do w fhe bearings top and bottom since i regularly flush these w warm soapy water, dry then treat w Maclube One Drop. Prblm must hv something to do w pre-loading the torsion rope. Did you hv this prblm?

[sailjumanji]

Dave (Calvert), do you have any pics of the cruising Code 0 you are building for large multihulls? I've read several articles you've written proposing them over screachers or asymmetric spinnakers. The challenge as a downwind sail would seem to be the straight luff can't project around to windward like a spinnaker. How to get it out from around the shadow of the mainsail, especially when using a bowsprit. Thoughts?

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

Howler, i agree w everything you say. I strughled on the foredeck w socks for spi and gennaker and now find the top down furler so much better.

I still find i get a reverse wrap on bottom 1/3 and not yet found the trick to avoid it. Dont ghink it has anything to do w fhe bearings top and bottom since i regularly flush these w warm soapy water, dry then treat w Maclube One Drop. Prblm must hv something to do w pre-loading the torsion rope. Did you hv this prblm?

I've read frequent accounts of that happening. Almost seems to be the norm, so would be interested as well in how Howler avoids.

Now that said, SaltyMetals, when the wrap happens, is it a big deal to clear? Does the furled sail have to come down? What do you have to do to get the sail flying again?

[cuffy]

I have a 2 to 1 tack line on my bowsprit and also blocks on each bow. It is easy to ease tack line and take in on bow line to project sail to windward
This happens when fairly broad so app wind is lower. I have also fitted a clutch on each side deck to take bow line.
This works with code sails and asymetrics

[shaunno71]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Yeah, it will always fail when its most inconvenient or dangerous!



I'm familiar with Corsair tris. We owned an F-24 Mk II and a Corsair 28R for eleven years, and was very active on the racing circuit and Class organization. When screachers first came out, they were cut pretty full and just for reaching. Then Smyth started making them very flat, and people were using them as upwind sails in light wind. We used to really load them up reaching in pretty strong wind.



Whose furler did you have problems with? Sad because that is a pretty small sail to have to furl. (My wife and I used to race our Mk II double-handed, she steered, and I handle the other sails myself. The Mk II sail was small enough to do that without furler or sock.)



Interesting that your Code 0 has a greater range of AWA than your screacher. I have seen some made from nylon (spin material). I wonder if for a boat our size, we can get high enough weight nylon to work. I know it is going to have more stretch.

Furler that i had issues with top-down furling an asymmetric spinnaker is a Selden continuous line one. I’ve repurposed same furler now for the FFR / Code0 and it works fine. nothing technically wrong with furler, just not practical or reliable top-down furling an asym from my experience.

[sailjumanji]

So Harken says most of the issues with their and others top-down furlers occur when deploying the sail (i.e., unfurling). And says this can be avoided by using the furling line to have a controlled unroll until the bottom of the sail is flying clear, and then the rest unfurled by pulling on the sheet. Says the deploy should not be done by merely pulling on the sheet and letting the furling line run free. If done that way, you get a back-furl on the bottom.

Is that what issues people are having? Here is a link to the utube video:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...0B07&FORM=VIRE

[Howler]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I've read frequent accounts of that happening. Almost seems to be the norm, so would be interested as well in how Howler avoids.

Now that said, SaltyMetals, when the wrap happens, is it a big deal to clear? Does the furled sail have to come down? What do you have to do to get the sail flying again?

Haven’t had too much trouble with reverse wraps. I think keeping a little tension on the spinnaker sheet helps it wrap nicely. The Seldèn manual also suggests always furling in the same direction. Perhaps this helps too over time although I couldn’t explain how.

[Ferrari]

(The Seldèn manual also suggests always furling in the same direction. Perhaps this helps too over time although I couldn’t explain how.)
The head of the sail is reinforced and so is thicker than the rest of the sail material.
This makes the first few turns more difficult and the material retains some memory of the tight futl.
Furling in the same direction means the natural furl memory aids the initial turns.
Furling the opposite direction works against the natural curve of the head requiring more torque, making furling more difficult.
Folding back and forth also creates wear to the head.

[cuffy]

It also helps the torsion line to furl in the same direction as this gets "memory", for want of a better term!