Splicing 3-strand nylon

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah, it can be frustrating with today's very soft 3 strand. Older stuff was much more stiff. Best you can do is as mentioned, open the gap you are going thru well and just keep twisting the strands as you go.

Ropes have always been available in both hard lay and soft lay. A good hard lay rope can be practically impossible to splice!

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by thinwater

What he said. Yes, twisting the strands, as others have suggested, works and looks cool, but tenchiki is correct. A splice made with lossened strands is smoother and stronger. I've tested them. This is actually quite obvious.

If the splice is for a windlass (rope-to-chain) it can be vital. There are only a few special cases (the laid-back portion of a long splice) where maintaining twist is beneficial. Otherwise, let them flatten out.

Hmm...details of your test, please. I've done no formalized testing on any of the scores, if not hundreds of 3 strand eye splices I've made in the 41 years since I was taught to make them, but the eye splice has always been stronger that the rope that they're made with; i.e. when a rope (admittedly rarely) broke, the rope parted before the splice. Every time.

As for it being obvious that they're 'smoother and stronger', how is it obvious? Properly done, a tapered eye splice is esthetically pleasing and stronger than the rope it is made with (in my experience). After a bit of thought, it would seem to me that the point loading of the twisted strand bearing against the opposing strand, digging increasingly into it as the load increased, would be stronger than the spread out forces of an unlaid strand bearing against a large surface, especially given the slickness of modern synthetic fibers. But hey, for me the splice is already stronger than the rope, so any consideration along these lines is purely academic, theoretical and amusing.

As for untwisting for a chain to rope splice for use with a windlass, I've no experience with that, but all these guys









appear to have left them twisted. They could be wrong though.

[topmast]

At first I thought 'Aha ,a need for my expertise' but soon realized other great minds already had it pretty covered. I can only add I like to retwist each strand as it's tucked and a good rolling under foot after all the tucking. Then see if I can get any more tight out of each last tuck. then roll again for appearances Then cut off the temperary seizings on both inside ends of the loop or thimble eye I then split each strand in two cut half and half get at least another tuck to spread the protruding bits out . Cut short and melt not burn to finish

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Hmm...details of your test, please. I've done no formalized testing on any of the scores, if not hundreds of 3 strand eye splices I've made in the 41 years since I was taught to make them, but the eye splice has always been stronger that the rope that they're made with; i.e. when a rope (admittedly rarely) broke, the rope parted before the splice. Every time.

As for it being obvious that they're 'smoother and stronger', how is it obvious? Properly done, a tapered eye splice is esthetically pleasing and stronger than the rope it is made with (in my experience). After a bit of thought, it would seem to me that the point loading of the twisted strand bearing against the opposing strand, digging increasingly into it as the load increased, would be stronger than the spread out forces of an unlaid strand bearing against a large surface, especially given the slickness of modern synthetic fibers. But hey, for me the splice is already stronger than the rope, so any consideration along these lines is purely academic, theoretical and amusing.

As for untwisting for a chain to rope splice for use with a windlass, I've no experience with that, but all these guys









appear to have left them twisted. They could be wrong though.

If the rope broke, you're pretty good! But maybe not 100% strength.

Having the rope breaks does not make the splice 100% strength, since the break will always be where the splice starts, since the strands are disturbed there by the bump of the tucked strands. Unless the strands are tapered and flattened, the splice can be as much as 20% weaker than the un-spliced rope. This is also true of bury splices; they break where the tail starts if not very well tapered. Your splice showed a nice taper and is certainly very strong.

If there are enough tucks--more than about 4--friction and slippage are not factors and breakage at the start is the determining characteristic. I think it becomes common sense, sense you think about it for a while. It is the bumps and turns in knots that weaken them, so the same is true. Neither fails by slipping.

For proof, you could try making a double-eye sling, one with a nicly tapered splice, and one with no taper, same number of tucks. The non-tapered spice will break. This is why even dockline splices need taper.

This is a subtle, basically unimportant detail, of interest mostly to testers. A good splice is good. I wanted to reassure the OP that if the strands were not twisted perfectly that that is OK. It would be worse (which I have seen many times) if he pulled well-twisted strands right through and cut them off without taper or flattening.

Flattening also seems to help in long splices.

(This splice is much thinner and more flexible, but just as strong. It also takes twice as long.)

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by thinwater

.......

(This splice is much thinner and more flexible, but just as strong. It also takes twice as long.)

Where do I find more information on this? I'm learning splicing and I've gotten this far:



I like the idea of tapering the strands like this:



But I'm not sure how to go about accomplishing what's in your picture, though I'm very curious.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by chris95040

So splicing a loop into a 3/4" 3-strand nylon should be pretty easy, right?

Any idea why I can't keep the individual strands from unraveling?

I have the ends whipped, i wrap them in tape at various spots along the length, but as soon as i start moving them around to make the splice, they end up untwisting into a lump of threads. The stuff is just so soft and smooth it doesn't want to hold together all twisty and nice.

I can hold it together well enough to make the splice, I guess, but the strands end up looking more like a set of parallel threads than a proper, wound strand.

Try using a splicing fid. The hollow in the fid makes it much easier to slide the strand through without untwisting it.

-David


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[UNCIVILIZED]

There's a Secret Ingredient for splicing 3-strand which is being High Maintenance, or for using it in difficult splices. Hair Gel.
It keeps the strands stuck together neatly, with more tenacity, while you're executing the splice. Just rinse it out when you're done.

No, I'm not kidding. It's what Brion Toss recommended to us in a splicing class years ago for keeping the yarns together while doing the Irony Splice (rope to chain splice).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

There's a Secret Ingredient for splicing 3-strand which is being High Maintenance, or for using it in difficult splices. Hair Gel.
It keeps the strands stuck together neatly, with more tenacity, while you're executing the splice. Just rinse it out when you're done.

No, I'm not kidding. It's what Brion Toss recommended to us in a splicing class years ago for keeping the yarns together while doing the Irony Splice (rope to chain splice).

Great tip! Thanks. I'm going to pick some up next time I'm at a supermarket.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

There's a Secret Ingredient for splicing 3-strand which is being High Maintenance, or for using it in difficult splices. Hair Gel.
It keeps the strands stuck together neatly, with more tenacity, while you're executing the splice. Just rinse it out when you're done.

No, I'm not kidding. It's what Brion Toss recommended to us in a splicing class years ago for keeping the yarns together while doing the Irony Splice (rope to chain splice).

Haha! I was thinking about using spray-starch but was afraid of unintended consequences.

Great tip and I'll be giving it a try soon. Thanks!!!