Stack Pack Design Alternatives

[wolfpv]

I have a worn out Sailrite style Stack Pack system on my Ohlson 41 and am planning to replace it. In doing research I found that there's a common English style which differs substantially from the Doyle/MackPack/Sailrite US style, and I'm planning to try it. The basic difference is that the US style provides a very spacious fabric "Net" which extends all the way from the clew to the mast, and is typically extremely tall at the mast end. The English style (typified by TecSew and Jekells) uses a lower profile "Net" extending to just forward of the forwardmost lazy jack, then employs a cover over the front section which is essentially like the front end of a typical Mainsail cover. The result is neater, and has less windage.

I've only seen these in photos, and I have a question about the best way to design the front of the "Net" section. See the two drawings below, and perhaps if someone has experience with this design you can suggest which of the two approaches is better. The first image is a photo of the Jeckell's version; you can see how it's much lower profile than the typical US StackPack.




-Steve

[Benz]

I have just run across this design on a Pogo. It was according to the lower sketch, except that the slope down toward the mast began at exactly the point where the forwardmost drop of the lazy jacks landed.
I don't believe that slant went all the way to the forward end of the boom, but it provided support for the lazy jack so it wouldn't just pull aft.

[Quebramar]

I have option 1 on my boom which is a bit more than 4m long. The first string is attached at the beginning of the pack so the ??? distance on the pic is approx nil. In order to deal well with the full batten I put four strings that form 2 inverted “V” and are attached to a superior inverted “V”, such that the longest battens are held from higher up. Works much better for me than what is on the pic and used to be on my prior pack.

[sailingharry]

We have a Quantum version system on our Saga 43. I hate it with a passion! It is ugly, it adds windage, and raising the main with the lazy jacks up is a serious PITA.

Unfortunately, I can't imagine what would be a better solution! Lol.

I do like your idea of a lower svelter pack. At least for our sailing style, I have one serious concern. We cruise, extensively. This means that the sail goes up every single day, and then down every single night. One huge advantage of the classic style is that even if we don't zip the pack, the sail is visually put away, and about 95% protected from sun and weather.

With the system you propose, you should ideally put that front piece on every night. On our boat, only 2 ft longer than yours, the top of the sail is so high that would be an awkward part of the evening routine (and morning routine). However, if your sailing style has longer periods of inactivity -- either as a weekend sailor, or as many cruisers do you sail someplace and then anchor there for a week or two or four -- then this system gives you a better looking sail cover without a significant convenience impact.

This is not a criticism or a dig at your idea. Merely a thought that may or may not be meaningful to you.

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by Quebramar

I have option 1 on my boom which is a bit more than 4m long. The first string is attached at the beginning of the pack so the ??? distance on the pic is approx nil. In order to deal well with the full batten I put four strings that form 2 inverted “V” and are attached to a superior inverted “V”, such that the longest battens are held from higher up. Works much better for me than what is on the pic and used to be on my prior pack.

Similar setup but I've crossed the lower legs so that the forward lower V connects to tag 1&3 on the stack pack instead of 1&2.
Aft lower V attaches to 2 & 4.

This gives 4 distinct angles from #4 jack to the mast.
Reduced possibility of a hook up on hoist and if hook up does occur it will be lower where the boat hook can deal with it.

[Striker]

Depends. You are going to be limited by what you can buy, or have made. Unless you are going to make it yourself.
Many years back i looked at both Stackpacks and Mackpacks. One sewed onto the main but had a batten and the other attached below the main with no batten.
So I simply flaked my main, measured the dimensions and built a pack with batten that attaches below the main. Perfect and sleek.
And WAY less coin. It utilizes lazy jacks, raises and dumps perfectly.
Custom builds are always better.

[wolfpv]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. Some notes:
Benz: Thanks for the tip...but what's a Pogo?

Quebramar: Thanks - my drawing for the lazy jacks isn't actually correct or in scale with my setup, but is basically what I have. Cascading only on the aft leg. Yours sounds quite well designed and might be better, though my lazy jacks have served OK with full battens.

Sailingharry: You are certainly right on. When we were cruising, the higher profile pack did serve well and, just as you say, protected the sail effectively even without zipping or adding the forward piece. We are, alas, now closer to 80 than 70, and no longer taking longer voyages. Just bay sailing and occasional trips from SF to SoCal, so the boat spends much more time buttoned up.

Rucksta - as noted above, my drawing of the lazy jacks isn't accurate. Your approach sounds quite effective; perhaps I should re-think my lazy jacks. On the other hand, I made these with nice splices, dyneema line, and low-friction rings, so maybe I'll just give that one a pass for now!

Striker: Thanks. I do intend to make it - I have excellent equipment to do so, moderate skills, and reasonable experience. My current Sailrite style pack was built by the previous owner but rebuilt a couple of times by me (and in need of replacement). You mention that yours is "with batten that attaches below the main". I assume you mean with two battens - but is it more like the Sailrite/Doyle/MackPack style (high profile, runs forward to mast near headboard height) or like the Jekells/TecSew style (lower profile, only goes just forward of the forwardmost lazy jack)

Again, thanks for the ideas and thoughts.

-Steve

[Benz]

Originally Posted by wolfpv

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. Some notes:
Benz: Thanks for the tip...but what's a Pogo?

Quebramar: Thanks - my drawing for the lazy jacks isn't actually correct or in scale with my setup, but is basically what I have. Cascading only on the aft leg. Yours sounds quite well designed and might be better, though my lazy jacks have served OK with full battens.

Sailingharry: You are certainly right on. When we were cruising, the higher profile pack did serve well and, just as you say, protected the sail effectively even without zipping or adding the forward piece. We are, alas, now closer to 80 than 70, and no longer taking longer voyages. Just bay sailing and occasional trips from SF to SoCal, so the boat spends much more time buttoned up.

Rucksta - as noted above, my drawing of the lazy jacks isn't accurate. Your approach sounds quite effective; perhaps I should re-think my lazy jacks. On the other hand, I made these with nice splices, dyneema line, and low-friction rings, so maybe I'll just give that one a pass for now!

Striker: Thanks. I do intend to make it - I have excellent equipment to do so, moderate skills, and reasonable experience. My current Sailrite style pack was built by the previous owner but rebuilt a couple of times by me (and in need of replacement). You mention that yours is "with batten that attaches below the main". I assume you mean with two battens - but is it more like the Sailrite/Doyle/MackPack style (high profile, runs forward to mast near headboard height) or like the Jekells/TecSew style (lower profile, only goes just forward of the forwardmost lazy jack)

Again, thanks for the ideas and thoughts.

-Steve

A "Pogo" is a French-built racer/cruiser brand that features a huge swing keel.

[Striker]

My wording wasn’t clear, sorry. My sail pack clips under the main. I saw a pack early on that was stitched to the main, i did not want that.
The battens, two of, run pretty much to the mast.
When i drop the main it sits into the pack fairly well, i tug it aft and set it in the pack. I can’t imagine it could be much lower profile without flaking the main, and that was what I wanted to avoid.
From dropping the main to zipping to the mast takes a couple of minutes at most.
Sounds like you have all you need. I would detest parting with silly coin for items substandard my design and construction, i dare say thats about your thinking.