standing rigging replacement concerns

[SofaKingFishy]

Have to disagree here. StaLok is a fine system, but a poor replacement for proper swages. One is mechanical/removable made for the DIY crowd, one is permanent, requires equipment. Sta-Lok is great for most applications, but isn’t on par with permanent swages.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by SofaKingFishy

Have to disagree here. StaLok is a fine system, but a poor replacement for proper swages. One is mechanical/removable made for the DIY crowd, one is permanent, requires equipment. Sta-Lok is great for most applications, but isn’t on par with permanent swages.

Ummm.... I've seen plenty of cracked swages and never a failed Sta-Lok. Can not agree with your statement.

Jim

[SofaKingFishy]

Not bashing Sta-Lok at all. The fact you haven’t ‘seen one’ is indisputable.

[CarinaPDX]

I go with Jim on this - Sta-Loks have a great record of reliability. Swaging quality terminals with a properly calibrated machine by a qualified rigger is also reliable. It is really hard for a DIY to assemble a Sta-Lok in a manner that would cause a problem; history shows that riggers have delivered swaged rigging that failed prematurely - not common but not as rare as it should be either. Whether it was a part quality issue, machine issue, or an operator error such as swaging the same fitting twice, is hard to tell after the fact but bad things have happened. As with Jim I have never known of a failed Sta-Lok fitting personally, but failed swages have happened.

It seems to me that the reasons to go with swaging are: 1) the owner is not a DIYer or want to DIY, and/or 2) the owner wishes to keep costs down (and does not expect to be around for the next re-rigging, which would change the balance). Of course there is still the option of a professional rigger doing the job with Sta-Loks, at a price.

Greg

[SofaKingFishy]

You guys are killing me…ok…the percentages…the sailing world is 99.99% Swage. Of course you’re going to see more failures. Geez AGAIN:. Sta-Loks are fine. Buy the T-shirt.

[chasfgr]

Stretch not the critical problem - inspect the wire as it come out of the swage. That is where they always go, usually at the upper ones. (Which are difficult to examine.

You'll do best to get a mobile rigger to come and inspect and to provis=de any new.
I'd dvise against do-it-yourself, unless you have access to a man-lift.


When I had my standing rigging replaced, the rigger came out with his own van, cut the wire to size, fitted the swage and fitted them.
Strangely it was only the Lowers which had any failed wires, caps and intermediates were still good - tirnbuckles were all worn and replaced (by far the biggest cost, getting chromed bronze, not cheap and cheerful 316 stainless.


With a bendy keel-stepped mast my rigging takes a lot of punishment and if I were re-rigging now I'd look at composites.
Lighter, less stretch, no risk of corrosion and suprisingly small prmium.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by SofaKingFishy

You guys are killing me…ok…the percentages…the sailing world is 99.99% Swage. Of course you’re going to see more failures. Geez AGAIN:. Sta-Loks are fine. Buy the T-shirt.

Geeze yet a third time: you said "Sta-Lok is great for most applications, but isn’t on par with permanent swages." How are Sta-Loks NOT on a par with swages? What is it that has earned your disfavor? The lack of explanation is why I and others have questioned your beliefs.

And BTW, in the active long range cruising fleet mechanical terminals are quite common... much more so that the 0.001% than you have posited. These are the guys who have experience, worry about reliability and value the possibility of doing DIY repairs in remote places. For marina queens and day sailors (and cheapskate builders) the lower first time costs of swages are persuasive.

If you will tell me what is on the t-shirt and where it is available I might take your advice and buy one.

Jim

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by chasfgr

Strangely it was only the Lowers which had any failed wires, caps and intermediates were still good - tirnbuckles were all worn and replaced (by far the biggest cost, getting chromed bronze, not cheap and cheerful 316 stainless.

Not all 316 turnbuckles are cheap and cheerful. My Navtec stainless turnbuckles have been rock solid, for more than 40 years and a good number of sea miles, and are still going strong. However, many may not be aware that the rigging screw in the middle is not stainless, but plated bronze. In this application stainless threads mated to stainless threads can gall and seize - ending the life of the turnbuckle. So if there are any all-stainless turnbuckles I would certainly not buy them. And whichever turnbuckle you do buy, use a dry lube on the threads before assembly. It will last for years and will keep the threads free. Of course clean and lube again as appropriate. And generally when tuning a rig don't adjust the turnbuckle under load - tack and adjust it while loose.

Greg

[Manateeman]

We have seen Sta-Lok cones with cracks in them, formers (the washer like thing in the bottom) with deep pits and threads destroyed by lack of lubrication.
Rust, pits, split cones. We’ve cut open a number just to look at why the formers stick and if you have a stuck former, what’s the easiest method to get it out.
We have never seen a Sta-Lok fail.
Merry Christmas.
The manatee crew.

[Thumbs Up]

Rigging Only get's a thumb's up. I order swaged on top and then use StaLocs on the bottoms. Some use sealant inside the StaLoc. Some use Loctite. I filled mine with a product that I found in my locker called CorrosionX. StaLoc doesn't mention using anything. What do you all think? Unlaying the outer strands and getting it all laid back around the cone without getting stuck in the groove can be a little tricky. An angle grinder with a thin metal cutting disc makes a nice clean cut. I discovered a trick. If you make a clean enough cut, you can push and twist the cone into position without first unlaying the outer strands.

[Manateeman]

Tef-Gel on the both sides of the formers and the threads...not a lot !
Dry fit then fill with whatever you like.
O K ..we are ready for the flack storm...5200.
The crew wanted to use Plexus...
Merry Christmas

[CarinaPDX]

A looong time ago StaLok recommended putting "sealant the size of a grape" into the fitting before final assembly, as well as a thread locker, but I haven't seen that in a long time. The former appears to be made of aluminum and is always scored by the SS wire, but since it has no structural purpose it is not anything to worry about. The important thing is to do a full dry fit and then disassemble to check that the wire is clear of the slot and the strands bent over right.

Greg

[Thumbs Up]

I think some rigging shops apply 5200 to the wire before swaging. I remember reading the "size of a grape" somewhere. StaLoc instructions don't mention it. There is also the issue of torque. I always give it an extra bit of oomph. Don't know if that is right. It is pretty vague. Gives me peace of mind, but with smaller wire, probably easy to overdo. Found this article:https://www.practical-sailor.com/blo...to-seal-or-not