Staysail boom, again.

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Thanks. Even zooming I can't see the specifics but it does appear that the boom is attached to the stay in some manner. And that's what I'm looking for,

Yeah, that pic was no good. I just went up on deck and took these. Maybe give you some ideas. I did not build this so I am not sure exactly where the rigger got the parts, but I know it was cobbled together from off the shelf components (the jib-boom being a spinnaker pole in fact with slots cut for the sheeves).

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Looking closely at your photos it does appear that the boom is attached to a bracket that wraps around the stay?

That is correct.

I recall seeing a paper sketch of this item, or something similar, in the boats paperwork. It may have been a one off item.

Not terribly hard to make it seems to just be a piece of steel rolled over.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

Yeah, that pic was no good. I just went up on deck and took these. Maybe give you some ideas. I did not build this so I am not sure exactly where the rigger got the parts, but I know it was cobbled together from off the shelf components (the jib-boom being a spinnaker pole in fact with slots cut for the sheeves).

Thank you very much. That is what I thought it was. In your installation the bracket the boom attaches to is on the top eye in the turnbuckle. I would assume that attaching a bracket to the stay itself would not introduce any dramatically different loads or stresses.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Not terribly hard to make it seems to just be a piece of steel rolled over.

That was my thought. One concern, if made from stainless would it chaff and wear on the stay over time. Thinking about making something like this but in bronze that would be a bit softer than the stainless so put the wear on a less critical part of the system

[hpeer]

I am not seeing any wear.

It is a snug fit, it slides but with a few pounds of effort.

[Patrigo]

I am forever noticing the often mentioned bunch of foredeck fittings needed for the sheets of a staysail on the foredeck. Also the "killer" boom flailing around and causing pain to anyone forward of the mast. I have a roller furled boomed staysail up front which cannot injure me in any way, and works very well. An additional stay, 100mm (4ins) forward of the staysail stay supports a wishbone boom. The lower section of this stay is a 10mm (3/8in) ss rod. The gooseneck of the wishbone is fashioned using a ss tube (about 100mm long{4ins}) which is an easy fit over the rod and is maintained at a constant height by a tight fitting bit of pvc tube on the rod. This rod is of such length that the clew end of the boom is about 200-300mms ( 8-12ins) above the deck. The, wishbone, obviously can only rotate about the rod and is always at right angles to the extra stay. These dimensions are such that my staysail roller furler is attached to the deck fitting of the staysail stay, and the clew, with a 2:1 sheet purchase at the wishbone aft end, goes via a block to another block on the foredeck centreline, and then to the cockpit. If one has to go forward, the staysail sheet is hauled tight and the wishbone cannot do much more than vibrate and can be used as a docile hand rail. The foot and leach of the sail stopping any flogging about of the wishbone. Obviously my staysail has a high cut clew. When the staysail is furled the tightened sheet keeps the wishbone statically centred. Tacking a yankee is a breeze, with a little practise it slips through the gap between the stays no problem. A genoa takes a bit of learning to tack and sometimes the wind strength requires all or most of it to be roller furled, during the tack and then let out again. The staysail is self tending with the single sheet. This may sound complicated but I have tried to explain it simply. It has worked well for me, single handing for many years. With a yacht a little bigger than mine there would be enough space under the docile boom for a dinghy. I hope this is understandable! The rod section of the stay is there to support the boom at right angles to the stay. If the stay were all wire the boom weight would kink the stay and eventually damage it.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

That is correct.

I recall seeing a paper sketch of this item, or something similar, in the boats paperwork. It may have been a one off item.

Not terribly hard to make it seems to just be a piece of steel rolled over.

Well how fortuitous. Digging through my odds and ends rigging spares I found a piece exactly like this. Just the size to fit over the stay with holes and a clevis pin on the end the correct size for the eye on the end of the staysail boom. Clearly a message from the universe.

[MicHughV]

You could try this.

Fit the staysail boom with a quick release pin at the foot. So when not in use or needed, it can be removed and lashed along the stanchions, or elsewhere to suit.

This gives you the best of both worlds.

A staysail boom when you need it....or dink resting place when you don't.

I had a staysail on my second boat, but no boom, just a track I'm betwixt and between as to what value it provided. On some points of sail, it seemed of some benefit, but mostly hardly worth the effort of hoisting it.

The staysail is not really designed to be used as a storm jib, though a storm jib could be hoisted on the staysail stay.

my 2c for today....

[hpeer]

The staysail usefulness depends on how the boat was designed. If it was an after thought or an add on there may be little use.

A boat with a sprit, with the #1 far forward and a generous staysail is a different critter.

We use our staysail a lot in various reasons. But the boat was designed that way. Big staysail with lots of room for the jib to blow through.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

You could try this.

Fit the staysail boom with a quick release pin at the foot. So when not in use or needed, it can be removed and lashed along the stanchions, or elsewhere to suit.

This gives you the best of both worlds.

A staysail boom when you need it....or dink resting place when you don't.

So how was the set and shape of the sail with vs without the boom?

Originally Posted by MicHughV

The staysail is not really designed to be used as a storm jib, though a storm jib could be hoisted on the staysail stay.

Assume you referring to the regular staysail itself as in it would not be heavy enough or small enough or shaped properly for a storm jib or some other reason? I think the regular staysail would be fine for heavy winds but maybe not a full blown storm sail.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

The staysail usefulness depends on how the boat was designed. If it was an after thought or an add on there may be little use.

A boat with a sprit, with the #1 far forward and a generous staysail is a different critter.

We use our staysail a lot in various reasons. But the boat was designed that way. Big staysail with lots of room for the jib to blow through.

On my boat the staysail is a bit in between. Pearson supplied several rig variations on the 424/422 series: ketch, sloop, cutter and I think what some call a slutter IE a sloop with a staysail added. The true cutter the mast is a few feet farther aft than the sloop. Gives enough room between the staysail stay and the forestay to tack my 135 reasonably well.

[MicHughV]

The staysail on my boat fitted between the bow and the mast. The staysail stay was removable. When not in use, it resided near the mast where it fitted into a half-moon shaped frame and the foot led forward to a pin. The stay itself was fitted with a manual tensioner. This was used both to the tension the stay in it's cradle when not in use, and also to tension the stay when employed. It had a single sheet, which was led thru' a block on a curved rail fitted with stops. When tacking little had to be done, as the car was free to move between the stops, with a minor tweak on it's sheet line.
The staysail itself was tall and narrow. It's prime function as related to me by professional racing crew, was to accelerate air flow between jib and main, so as to have better airflow over the main.
The only time I used it was when I raced the boat. I never used it in cruising mode. It worked best when hard on the wind or a bit cracked off.
When it was used, while racing, it did make a noticeable difference, but only going to weather.
I don't think of myself as a sloppy sailor, but neither am I am a balls to the wall racer either.

It sounds complicated as I explain it here, but it was a relatively simple arrangement.

When racing, and trying to get the last 0.001 knot of speed, it would be used, but while cruising...no.