Swept spreaders?

[Lazerbrains]

Originally Posted by wingssail

This type of arrangment also reduces the cost of the rig since you eliminate two sets of chainplates (the separate chain plates for the fore and aft lowers) and two diagonal shrouds (no foreward lower shrouds)

BINGO!!!!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Skipper John

My comments are based on sailing an '05 Junneau 39 from Spain to the Bahamas 2 yrs ago. We had 4 experienced crew with many years of experience.
We found that in winds over 15 kts the waves built to 2 m and up to 4 m over 20 kts. Since the course was essentially downwind we sailed wing and wing. We would not sail in those winds with the main on the spreaders so the boom was only out about 45 degrees. With the boom like that sailing dead down wind in big seas is risking an involuntary jibe even if reefed so we steered 70 to 80 degrees apparent. This puts the waves on the aft quarter causing the boat to round up 'viciously if no correction action is taken. The autopilot can't anticipate and then it over corrects making matters worse. So it's manual steering in those conditions.

That boat has TWIN backstays. Very comforting in 30 kts downwind! Why do you think. Junneau/Sheldon put backstays on this swept spreaders rig?

My own boat has a conventional rig with a backstay of course. It has stood up to jibing a full main in 50 kts. I wouldn't do that in a swept spreaders boat with no backstay.

"My own boat has a conventional rig with a backstay of course. It has stood up to jibing a full main in 50 kts. I wouldn't do that in a swept spreaders boat with no backstay."

I'd worry about that too.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Skipper John

My comments are based on sailing an '05 Junneau 39 from Spain to the Bahamas 2 yrs ago. We had 4 experienced crew with many years of experience.
We found that in winds over 15 kts the waves built to 2 m and up to 4 m over 20 kts. Since the course was essentially downwind we sailed wing and wing. We would not sail in those winds with the main on the spreaders so the boom was only out about 45 degrees. With the boom like that sailing dead down wind in big seas is risking an involuntary jibe even if reefed so we steered 70 to 80 degrees apparent. This puts the waves on the aft quarter causing the boat to round up 'viciously if no correction action is taken. The autopilot can't anticipate and then it over corrects making matters worse. So it's manual steering in those conditions.

That boat has TWIN backstays. Very comforting in 30 kts downwind! Why do you think. Junneau/Sheldon put backstays on this swept spreaders rig?

My own boat has a conventional rig with a backstay of course. It has stood up to jibing a full main in 50 kts. I wouldn't do that in a swept spreaders boat with no backstay.

The boat was using the wrong sail plan. Dead downwind for a sloop in the trades = foresail(s) only. A symmetric spinnaker or a genoa and a jib. If it is still rolling, a slot between genoa and jib can fix that: hoist the jib without using the furler track that holds the genoa as well (free flying).

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by wingssail

"My own boat has a conventional rig with a backstay of course. It has stood up to jibing a full main in 50 kts. I wouldn't do that in a swept spreaders boat with no backstay."

I'd worry about that too.

This requires caution but in 50 kts so it does for every rig. For us, we jibe the sail into the running backstay, set the other backstay, then retract the one that has the sail into it.

[double u]

know both - swept back a right royal PIA on the tradewind route.
Alas: as with saildrive & wheelsteering - very hard to avoid in newer, serial-built boats

[thinwater]

Any interesting history of actual failures of B&R rigs in jibes and such, or is this talk mostly conjecture?


Honestly curious.


(A boom that is not squared off does place more stress on a preventer, and I know of at least several high-profile failures, though each had critical contributing rigging errors.)

[Rucksta]

My autopilot works fine down wind and in a quartering sea.
It measures sea state and dynamically adjusts the helm response to allow the predictive algorithm keep the boat on a very flat S curve.

The full battened main can touch all three in line spreaders and the boom can strike the cap shrouds if allowed.

Effective use of the running rigging controls the sail shape and position.
Boom vang is the primary control then backstay to keep the leech closed.

Running back and check stay keep the mast up.

Outhaul and Cunningham help optimise the position of the draft then with the traveler almost to the leeward stop bring the sheet in until nothing can chafe.

Then we trim for speed.
Even flying a symmetrical kite with the pole almost on the windward cap shroud main boom out all the way is not optimum trim.

Sheeting in until the tell tales flow forward keeps the boat powering between the wave crests and showing higher peak speed.

Sheet in helping fill the spinnaker makes steering the boat underneath the spinnaker a more relaxed proposition and produces less rolling.

When I observe the spreader/sail/ shroud clearance at optimum trim deep down wind I believe I could carry a 22.5 deg sweep without impacting the sail plan.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Any interesting history of actual failures of B&R rigs in jibes and such, or is this talk mostly conjecture?
)

Mostly/all conjecture

I have never read of it happening and i bet if you find one the conditions were terrible and gotten other rig, or there turnedout there was a rigging problem.

I have had squalls run up the stern and crash gibe me, not fun but my rigging survive.