Synthetic rigging

[seacap]

Hi all,
Synthetic rigging aka HM (high modules) rigging, Dynex Dux etc.
I'm taking the plunge and re-rigging my Bristol Channel Cutter with it.

so far there are number of good discussions here at:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ing-18184.html
and
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ner-22345.html

I have started a blog at www.garyfelton.com/shanti/ to document the process, problems and hopefully joys of the new rig. You all are invited to the discussion on the blog or here on this thread. I think it is exciting new technology for enhancing the performance of anyones boat. Removing weight aloft is a great performance booster for any boat. On Shanti the weight savings will be around 70lbs! I have personal experience on a 86' ketch that removed 1200lbs out of their rig by replacing the roller furler mast with a carbon fiber unit. The performance difference was stunning! There is a rule of thumb that goes for every pound you remove from aloft is like adding 10 pounds in your keel (your mileage may very).

There are other advantages for cruisers also. Easily rigging and emergency stay. No rust. No worry about stainless fatiguing. Easy do it yourself. The one big problem. if it is a problem, will be UV. So far this appears not to be a big problem. Of course down here in the Caribbean I will be giving this area a good test.

Cheers,
Gary

[tami]

I have a trailerable trimaran with Précourt rigging of Dynex Dux.

These shrouds see regular use, although the boat does not live mast up. My shrouds are at least four years old, maybe as old as six (PO installed them and I'm not sure when.) I recently sent them to Msr. Précourt for inspection as there was some chafe just above the lower adjusters. Précourt respliced the worst chafed bits back into the lines as tails and informed me they would last at least another couple years.

I do maintain my rigging by making sure they are rinsed with fresh water, and I also coat them at the lower (deck) ends with Yale Maxi-Jacket. I have never heard it discussed, but I would imagine that salt crystals in the fibres would cause chafe and breakage, however small the scale, in a cumulative way. And the Maxi-Jacket coating helps with chafe and also affords UV protection.

Another good resource for synthetic rigging discussion, mainly aimed at monohull applications is the Brion Toss "Spartalk" discussion group. Do a search for 'synthetic rigging' or 'dux' or similar terms.

[seacap]

Hi Tami,
Thanks for the users report. Is your rig Dynex or Dynex Dux. I was under the impression that the Dux has only been out for a couple of years. I understand that the chafe resistance is excellent with this stuff is even used for things like trawl lines and butchers aprons. The fishermen that use this stuff really like it and say it holds up very well. I don't think the salt crystal chafe would be a factor. It doesn't seem to be in regular line and the Dynex is much tougher.

Yes,the Spartalk forum at briontoss.com has had some excellent discussions on this. I understand that Brion rigged his own boat with it.

Gary

[Abaco]

Seacap,

Your channel cutter is a perfect application for the synthetic rigging. The lashed terminals in lieu of turnbuckles will look very cool. I like the combination of high tech and "old school" you get with the synthetic rigging. There was a Wharram Tiki 30 cat at the Miami boat show this year that was rigged with Dynex Dux. If I where rigging a new boat, I would definitely use it.

[seacap]

Thanks Abaco,
I'm trying to decide now if I want to go with real wooden deadeyes. There is no real difference except material. I like cool. Always have said if you can't sail good you should at least look good!

[Jmolan]

No worries about salt. I have personally used Dynex Dux onboard a Bearing Sea Trawler for at least 6 years. As fishermen we were all sceptical of how it would perform. We now figure that is outlasts wire 3 to 1 on our need to change it out. These ropes get some severe use, dragging up to 150 ton bags of fish over rusty, sand and grit covered decks. we have replace every piece of wire on the deck now with Dynex Dux, including the main trawl winches that hold 800 fathoms of 25mm (1 inch)...we were sold by the ease of use (the crews can move this stuff around in one hand) and the longevity of life. It can take some serious abuse. We use it on all the crane lines, haulback winches, 50 ton pull master bag winches, and hookup ropes to the net. Also when it does break, it just falls, no spring loading. I understand all the tow competitions with trucks use it now just for the safety reasons of no spring back.
Wire is dead weight!
I rigged my Searunner Trimaran and it is well documented in other threads. I am currently on a cruise in the Sea of Cortez and all is well. No worries.

Originally Posted by seacap

Hi Tami,
Thanks for the users report. Is your rig Dynex or Dynex Dux. I was under the impression that the Dux has only been out for a couple of years. I understand that the chafe resistance is excellent with this stuff is even used for things like trawl lines and butchers aprons. The fishermen that use this stuff really like it and say it holds up very well. I don't think the salt crystal chafe would be a factor. It doesn't seem to be in regular line and the Dynex is much tougher.

Yes,the Spartalk forum at briontoss.com has had some excellent discussions on this. I understand that Brion rigged his own boat with it.

Gary

[seacap]

Jmolan,
Your posts about rigging your tri were some of the first I read. Thank you for that. I'm really looking forward to this new rig...all the weight I will save aloft. Probably a little more important for a mono compared to a multi.

Any tips for putting it together?

I understand that this new line is made out of the same stuff they make garbage bags out of. If thats true, then am I rigging my boat with garbage bags?

[jfranta]

At Colligo Marine we have spent alot of time trying to understand the Dynex Dux and it's applications for standing rigging on Sailboats. We have rigged over a hundred Multihulls with rotating and fixed masts and many monohulls now including a 55 foot Schooner in Annapolis with our hardware and Dynex Dux.

If you are going to use Dynex Dux there are a few rules you need to be cognizant of:

1. You size the line for Creap and Stretch, not Breaking Strength like Steel wire rope. For most Cruising applications the static loads will be low enough that you will not have a significant creep problem. There is a creep table for the smaller diameters available on our website to understand its use for your application. There is also a stretch table for similare usage. If your boat is currently rigged it is easy to compare your wire to the variuous sizes of Dynex Dux. If you size the line this way you will be at least twice as strong as the 1x19 wire you are replacing, giving you a significant safety margin for any chafe issues you might have. Our Creep and Stretch testing has been veryfied by several outside sources now and is consistent.

2. Dynex Dux is not rope as you know it, it has been Stretched in a steam oven at elavated temperatures. This does a number of things to the Spun Polyethylene; It work hardens the material, which makes it stronger and much stiffer. It is the most chafe resistant line you can buy. It also virtually eliminates the constructional stretch and sets it so it does not loosen. This stiff line requires special end terminations with at least a 5/1 bending diameter to line diameter ratio, this is a recommendation of the line manufacturer, Hampidjan. I would ask you, Gary, to keep an eye on the inside diameter of the line as you wrap it around the Precourt hardware to splice it. The Precourt hardware was designed for SK-75 and Aramids before Dux was even around and does not meet the 5/1 ratio, it is too small and much too small on the upper deadeyes. Watch the inner strands kink up as you splice the line and then do some research on the web to find out what happens to Polyethylene when you kink it. With Dynex Dux you can easily cut the strength in half when kinking it. We have done alot of pull testing with Dynex Dux and when spliced correctly it always breaks at the bend around our line terminators. We are currently doing a UV study on Dux and pull testing line that has been UV aged, It also breaks at the bend where the only stress riser is, but at much less load than unaged line. We wil be posting this UV degradation data on the web soon.

Using a smaller radius is no problem as long as you have a big safety factor in the line and change it often. This easy for trailerables that get inspected all the time and this is Precourt's target market. The problem is that inevitable UV damage will bring the breaking strength down continuously until you have a failure. A tight radius will significanlyt decrease the amount of time to that failure. For a large boat with fixed rigging that does not get inspected all the time it is very dangerous to use hardware that does not meet Hampidjan's 5/1 requirement.

Using our hardware with Dynex Dux, we can easliy now say 5 plus years in the sun uncovered and will be posting our UV study reports and subsequent recomendations for all to see on the web. Any smaller Radius hardware is going to give you significantly less line life.

Gary, I think you should make it clear on your blog that you are using hardware that does not meet the line manufacturers reccomendation. Dynex Dux is new technology and its misuse and subsequent reports of failure can set this technology back for all of us. In additon, Precourt should be very clear to all that their hardware does not meet this requirement.

John Franta, Colligo Marine.

Originally Posted by seacap

Hi all,
Synthetic rigging aka HM (high modules) rigging, Dynex Dux etc.
I'm taking the plunge and re-rigging my Bristol Channel Cutter with it.

so far there are number of good discussions here at:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ing-18184.html
and
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ner-22345.html

I have started a blog at www.garyfelton.com/shanti/ to document the process, problems and hopefully joys of the new rig. You all are invited to the discussion on the blog or here on this thread. I think it is exciting new technology for enhancing the performance of anyones boat. Removing weight aloft is a great performance booster for any boat. On Shanti the weight savings will be around 70lbs! I have personal experience on a 86' ketch that removed 1200lbs out of their rig by replacing the roller furler mast with a carbon fiber unit. The performance difference was stunning! There is a rule of thumb that goes for every pound you remove from aloft is like adding 10 pounds in your keel (your mileage may very).

There are other advantages for cruisers also. Easily rigging and emergency stay. No rust. No worry about stainless fatiguing. Easy do it yourself. The one big problem. if it is a problem, will be UV. So far this appears not to be a big problem. Of course down here in the Caribbean I will be giving this area a good test.

Cheers,
Gary

[Jmolan]

Originally Posted by seacap

Jmolan,
Your posts about rigging your tri were some of the first I read. Thank you for that. I'm really looking forward to this new rig...all the weight I will save aloft. Probably a little more important for a mono compared to a multi.

Any tips for putting it together?

I understand that this new line is made out of the same stuff they make garbage bags out of. If thats true, then am I rigging my boat with garbage bags?

Here are a couple shots of how good this stuff works. These are Colligo "softies" I have them all over the boat. I have eliminated as much SS as I can. This is a two month old shot of my bow anchor bridle. One on each outer Hull (trimaran) I have been on the hook for two months, and have sat through a number of 30+ Kts. nights now while cruising. The Softies show no sign of wear. I have not even chamfered the SS plate they are going thru.
I have to ask, why Facnor Furler? It is twice the price of one of these.Furlers | Colligo Marine

I have one now that i LOVE on the bow. But now i think two more would be the cat's meeoww. One for the staysail and one for a bowsprit drifter or Code 0......Cool stuff...

[tami]

I have and will continue to do business with Msr. Precourt. His quality is exceptional, he has been in the market for longer, and his service is excellent. And he does not go about on the Internet denigrating the competition, his stance I find professional as well as refreshing.

My boat takes a fair amount of abuse, being a very modified race boat. I have Precourt soft hanks, Precourt furler and Precourt shrouds.

[jfranta]

Tami, I Apologize if you feel I am denigrating the competition. My intentions are to get the engineering information out about the usefulness of Dynex Dux for standing rigging. We have obviously done the most amount of research on this material for this application and probably understand it better than anyone else, for this application. I have only stated facts that can be backed up with your own research if you want. See Gashmore's postings.

Again, my concern is that misuse of this technology can lead to major setbacks on the usage of it and that can hurt us all. Dynex Dux is new material and needs to be understood to be used properly.

Originally Posted by tami

I have and will continue to do business with Msr. Precourt. His quality is exceptional, he has been in the market for longer, and his service is excellent. And he does not go about on the Internet denigrating the competition, his stance I find professional as well as refreshing.

My boat takes a fair amount of abuse, being a very modified race boat. I have Precourt soft hanks, Precourt furler and Precourt shrouds.

[Jmolan]

Synthetic Searunner pictures by jmolan - Photobucket

Here is a bunch of shots I may have posted this already...also search Synthetic Searunner for a lot of info I think. I am in La Paz for another day and then will be off line for a few weeks in the Islands....:-)

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Jmolan

Synthetic Searunner pictures by jmolan - Photobucket

Here is a bunch of shots I may have posted this already...also search Synthetic Searunner for a lot of info I think. I am in La Paz for another day and then will be off line for a few weeks in the Islands....:-)

Where to get the "softies" and how do they stay on if flogging around?

What is the little yellow tail? Holds it on.

Link on how to use (for slow learners)?

[Jmolan]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Where to get the "softies" and how do they stay on if flogging around?

What is the little yellow tail? Holds it on.

Link on how to use (for slow learners)?

Home click on the home link

The little yellow tail is an aid to open up the eye part, you insert the knob into the eye and milk the sheath back down to it. I have not lost one yet in any kind of flogging or stupid deck moves (I make a lot of those)

[Therapy]

Not having luck.

Click on the pic (actually a red X) and get-

Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.

Probable reasons are:

• You sent a plain HTTP request to an SSL-enabled server port. Instead please use the HTTPS protocol to access this URL, like this: https://example.com:8443/</B>
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Please contact your webmaster if you are not sure what goes wrong.

<edit>
Never mind, I went somewhere else on the site and got there.

I was ready to buy a halyard shackle. I think I will try the softie.

Thanks.