Talk me out of roller furling

[Benz]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I looked up those Westsail 32's on Yachtworld, and they are pretty much as I, and others have suggested. The sail on the end of the sprit is on a furler....a good choice as the sprit is w-a-a-a-y out there, and hanking it on, dousing or raising it, would be a chore under the best of conditions.

The sail at the front of the boat, at the bow, the " jib" on most boats...but the "staysail" on this model boat is hanked on.

I think the nomenclature of terms can be confusing, as it's rare to see a modern boat with a bowsprit of any lenght. For most modern the boats, the "staysail" is located between the mast and bow, but on the Westsail 32, it is on the bow.

Those "staysails" that are not on the bow are technically not staysails, but solents. It's rather a shame that correct terms for things are being forgotten, since as you mentioned, it breeds confusion. A proper cutter rig, with a long bowsprit and stemhead-pinned stay'sl, doesn't require many jib changes: a large mainsail is the driver, and the jib is a yankee-cut number that conspires with the stay'sl to direct wind toward the main. In light air, a drifter can be set flying while the jib stays doused along the sprit: in heavy weather, the jib is doused and the stay'sl feeds air to the reefed main.
Roller furlers got popular when mainsails became too high-aspect to properly drive the boat, and a lot of headsail was needed for propulsion, leading to bigger and bigger and obscenities of jib, which got harder and harder to control. It's a matter of one design flaw leading to another and another and opening endless cans of worms.

[AKA-None]

All I can say is that when my engine cut out while leaving the marina I was glad of two things
I had a jib on a furler ready to deploy
I remembered I was a sailboat

Deploying the jib like right now caught me some wind and I sailed out rather than ending up on the beach

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

All I can say is that when my engine cut out while leaving the marina I was glad of two things
I had a jib on a furler ready to deploy
I remembered I was a sailboat

Deploying the jib like right now caught me some wind and I sailed out rather than ending up on the beach

I agree that a roller furling headsail would be a boon in dealing with engine problems in tight quarters.

Is that a regular occurrence?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Benz

Those "staysails" that are not on the bow are technically not staysails, but solents.

A Solent is just a specific type of staysail. Any sail hoisted on an inner forestay is a staysail. And what you're describing is not a Solent. A Solent would be placed very close to the jib where unless running downwind, you can only use one or the other, not both. The boats with the jib on the bow and a staysail further in are just a modified form of the cutter rig (closer to a sloop with an added staysail), rather than the traditional form with a bowsprit.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Benz

…. a large mainsail is the driver,…

A “true” cutter has the mast set slightly further aft, meaning a smaller main for a given length of hull.

The reason for it being set slightly further aft was so that the staysail would be of a more useful size.

[donradcliffe]

After decades of changing jibs on the foredeck with green water going down my seaboots, I sailed my first boat with a roller furler. We called it "The Miracle". The only time I spent on the foredeck at sea after that was rigging the whisker pole downwind, and the best part was even then I didn't have to deal with a flogging sail. This first boat had a split drum which could be taken off for racing, and it got a bit distorted one day when the wind got over 50. I bent it back into shape with a spanner, and it lasted all the way across the Pacific. My next boat had an oversize Harken furler, and I put 85,000 miles on it. It took a while to get the best lead on the furling line so it didn't chafe in high winds, but we NEVER changed jibs at sea. The partially furled genoa was good for winds up to 60 knots, and you could easily choose your sail size. The boat would not go to weather as well with just the genoa rolled up to less than 40% of the foretriangle, but it would still go to weather better than most boats.

[SailingHarmonie]

The insistence by some people that roller furling is unreliable and an accident waiting to happen is just silly. it might have been true decades ago, but modern equipment is reliable. You might as well argue that you shouldn't have electricity in your home because it might kill you. It might...

The most trouble I ever had with a sail was when a slide on a traditional mainsail got stuck near the top of the mast. The situation had all the drama and danger that the naysayers prescribe to roller furling, and I had none of the advantages

A modern properly cut headsail can roll up dramatically and still do a great job of keeping the boat moving without the huge baggy draft that the naysayers imagine. I had a friend who sailed on a fully crewed large sailboat across the Pacific. She said in two weeks there was not a single watch where they did not change headsails at least once. Can I compete with that? Nope. But I am not trying to.

There is no question that a roller furling mainsail is a significantly less efficient sail than it's hoisted cousin. But I only sail shorthanded. My mainsail is roller furling, and not just that, but ELECTRIC roller furling. (Are you horrified yet???)

I can reef and unreef in literally a few seconds by wiggling two fingers. When the squall goes by, there is no sailing along under-canvased, wondering if I should put my wet gear on and go up to the mast to shake a reef out. I just do it as soon as I think of it. No need to wake the off watch because I am going out on deck.

I'll bet that under conditions like these, I can sail faster--on average--than the typical short-handed sailboat with traditional sails because I have MORE sail up more often. After 25 years, and two circumnavigations, I think the gear on my boat has been proven reliable.

Oh, yes it DOES take maintenance. But so does everything else on a boat, so what?

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I agree that a roller furling headsail would be a boon in dealing with engine problems in tight quarters.

Is that a regular occurrence?

100% of one time :-)

[hpeer]

OP,

Just in case you missed my earlier post, a ReefRite furler works like a regular (really good) furler.

But it also allows you to deop the sail just as a hanked on.

With a typical furlong headsail you need to pul the luff out if the foil.

With ReefRite the sail stays attached to the extrusion, pull it down and bag it right there, ready to go back up.

You have BOTH options with no downside on a really good furler.

https://reefrite.co.nz/

[Benz]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

A Solent is just a specific type of staysail. Any sail hoisted on an inner forestay is a staysail. And what you're describing is not a Solent. A Solent would be placed very close to the jib where unless running downwind, you can only use one or the other, not both. The boats with the jib on the bow and a staysail further in are just a modified form of the cutter rig (closer to a sloop with an added staysail), rather than the traditional form with a bowsprit.

I disagree, but this does illustrate the way language is shifting. I wish when a new thing was invented they would give it a new name, instead of calling everything with two headsails a "cutter," even though that originally had a very specific definition.
If the stay'sl is not set on the forestay, it isn't a stay'sl. The forestay is the principal stay holding up the mast. The stay going from bowsprit end to masthead is the jibstay, on which the jib is flown. Without this arrangement, the boat cannot be considered a cutter. Another name should be found, since as we've seen confusion is bred by looseness in terms.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Adelie

A “true” cutter has the mast set slightly further aft, meaning a smaller main for a given length of hull.

The reason for it being set slightly further aft was so that the staysail would be of a more useful size.

A true cutter is gaff-rigged, which has plenty of sail area to drive the boat. When it became fashionable to put marconi rigs on otherwise decent boats, a lot of good was lost, and many of the design conundrums still seen today were casued by that trend.

[MicHughV]

I think it's all semantics these days.

The jib on my Beneteau has several long foam pads sewn into the sail, right behind the luff. These are there to take the " bagginess" out of a partially furled jib, which has been a curse for most partially reefed jibs on a roller furling assembly. It works well, but no denying that the partially furled sail is not efficient upwind.

In general, it all has to do with providing a sailor the means to reef the boat without leaving the cockpit. Even my main can be hoisted and reefed from the cockpit. Do I like it ? No, there is such a profusion of lines in the cockpit, it's hard to tell what is what at times.

Looking back, my first boat, with hanked on sails, and all reefing, halyard lines at the mast was simple and uncomplicated.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Benz

I disagree, but this does illustrate the way language is shifting. I wish when a new thing was invented they would give it a new name, instead of calling everything with two headsails a "cutter," even though that originally had a very specific definition.
If the stay'sl is not set on the forestay, it isn't a stay'sl. The forestay is the principal stay holding up the mast. The stay going from bowsprit end to masthead is the jibstay, on which the jib is flown. Without this arrangement, the boat cannot be considered a cutter. Another name should be found, since as we've seen confusion is bred by looseness in terms.

The "cutter without a bowsprit" may need a new name. But it's not a Solent. Maybe we should just call it a "staysail sloop", like I've seen some ketches with double headsails referred to as a "staysail ketch" rather than a "cutter ketch". By definition, any sail set on a stay from the mast to the deck (or bowsprit) forward of the mast is a staysail, including the jib. But we give the jib a more specific name.

A comparison of a cutter (with the mis-used cutter name) vs a Solent rig is shown below.

[MicHughV]

True, these Volvo around the world racers have several jibs on furlers stacked behind each other on the bow.

hmmmm...a solent, cutter, sloop, whatchamajiggy rig...

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I think the nomenclature of terms can be confusing, as it's rare to see a modern boat with a bowsprit of any lenght. For most modern the boats, the "staysail" is located between the mast and bow, but on the Westsail 32, it is on the bow.

True enough.
In traditional nomenclature, ANY headsail with its tack at or inboard of the stem is a "staysail".
"Jibs" are/were sails that had their tack on a "Jib Boom", what we call today as a bowsprit.
The "Bowsprit" actually being a short structural section protruding from the stem that was the support for the Jib Boom.
The two fastened together by a "Gammoning" and a "Gammon Iron".