Upper and lower shrouds on one chain plate. How to?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well, it didn’t… another try using a cropped image

The important thing to watch for is that each attachment has it’s own toggle so that it can align properly.

Exactly.

That’s the trick. That’s the key.

Each attachment has to be independently adjustable. If it’s not independently adjustable, the cap shrouds and the lowers end up at the same tension. So basically you could not tune the rig and you actually have some risk of collapse as well.

That’s what the older guy in the rigging shop thought couldn’t be done without adding 2 more chainplates. Insanity in terms of extra epoxy work I can’t do.

Now that the design for the proper piece of metal has been sent to the younger guy via text message, the on-site fabricator is making those up for me now. They will attach directly to the chain plate I put in the pictures on the first page.

Done deal

[Tupaia]

Is your intntion to have synthetic rigging? If so something like a Wichard MX shackle, as is, modified or custom made to take 2 risers would do the trick. The shackle would have to be threaded on so the pin is replaced by the chain plate rod.
Percourt lashing with no turn buckles from there on up.
Just a suggestion.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Well , no idea the beam in the sunder, looks like a rocket upwind, inboard chainplates is out of the game.

The beam is 16’, quite narrow for a 64’ hull. Being a ketch, our upwind performance can be beat by a First 47 and many cruising 50 footer sloops.

It’s a broad reaching monster though… hull design speed 26kts.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Also there is something like this on my sister ship. It’s hard to make out exactly what’s going on in the picture. But I think it’s grabbing the ends of the pin.

Well, now I understand what you mean, the ss plate in the photo of your sister ship makes a lot of sense, i guess it's CF, if you replicate the same SS link plate, the problem would be solved, i still don't understand how they haven't seen it before suggesting another chainplate.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The beam is 16’, quite narrow for a 64’ hull. Being a ketch, our upwind performance can be beat by a First 47 and many cruising 50 footer sloops.

It’s a broad reaching monster though… hull design speed 26kts.

In flat waters? can't believe a first 47 can beat you in moderate conditions.

[MicHughV]

It’s a broad reaching monster though… hull design speed 26kts.

26 knots !!!....dang..that's flying...wonder what Chotu's cat will do on a broad reach...

sigh...I live in the slow lane...8 knots is going lickity split...

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

It’s a broad reaching monster though… hull design speed 26kts.

26 knots !!!....dang..that's flying...wonder what Chotu's cat will do on a broad reach...

sigh...I live in the slow lane...8 knots is going lickity split...

Yeah, seriously. My *powerboat* won't do 26 kts wide open unless it's really light and on a perfect (and lucky) day.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by neilpride

In flat waters? can't believe a first 47 can beat you in moderate conditions.

I can go faster (11kts) when sailing upwind, but the First 47 can point higher. They are about as fast tacking upwind so beat us half the time.

I need a reach to start planing. Once, during a squall, we started planing when I started bearing off to a reach, helped by a wave… with just mizzen and jib up! That never happened before nor ever after.

For Chotu I think it works different because his narrow hulls create a very high hull speed so he can do high speeds without planing.

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by Sailing55

In reality, ....

Please just move along. You are not adding value to this thread by repeatedly provoking Chotu.

[malbert73]

Single stronger chainplate is so much better of a design IMO. My Tartan 40 has a single chainplate inboard, tied into the hull/bulkhead via massive tierod. Robust, only 1 place to waterproof. Uppers and lowers each have a hole and the chainplate is oriented beam wise to allow toggles to work.

[Madehn]

Cmon now you just have to learn how to handle chotu. He gets upset, he rants, he gets insulting, then he calms down, starts to listen, reconsiders, then moves on. His drama can be more entertaining than 3 wildcats and a Rottweiler in a huge gunnysack. The key is to never take his ranting too seriously. Just smile and step back from the keyboard. Not saying I would want to anchor next to him everyday but I do admire his tenacity. When he gets nasty I just move on to another thread. Although seriously him telling somebody else that they needed to keep THEIR drama in hand was priceless. Had tears running down my face. I really want to see his boat finished. It could be a beautiful thing or a complete POS but I know he has put heart and soul into it. Taunting chotu is like mud wrestling with a pig. At the end you are tired dirty and bleeding and the pig is still in the mud wallow ready for round two. ������. All that said both sides need to grow so thicker skins and remember that replying to a post you disagree with in a nasty manner is absolutely not required.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Single stronger chainplate is so much better of a design IMO. My Tartan 40 has a single chainplate inboard, tied into the hull/bulkhead via massive tierod. Robust, only 1 place to waterproof. Uppers and lowers each have a hole and the chainplate is oriented beam wise to allow toggles to work.

Really?

Better than three attached to fiberglass knees with one shroud each.

I doubt it.

https://svcrystalblues.blogspot.com/...ne-around.html

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Really?

Better than three attached to fiberglass knees with one shroud each.

I doubt it.

As long as each chainplate (and supporting structure) is built to handle the loads applied to it, it doesn't matter if you divide those loads amongst 3 chainplates or a single really strong one.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

As long as each chainplate (and supporting structure) is built to handle the loads applied to it, it doesn't matter if you divide those loads amongst 3 chainplates or a single really strong one.

Right.

Three chain plates, three shrouds each side holding up a 30' mast with cable same size as a Catalina 30

I'm thinking that is stronger and safer.

On a single, one failure is all it takes

Either way the Bristol 27 above bought for $1,000 held together pretty well crossing three oceans at nearly 40 years old.

Both types are on the Mahina Offshore Boats list so you can argue either way.

https://mahina.com/wp-content/upload...e-Cruising.pdf

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Right.

Three chain plates, three shrouds each side holding up a 30' mast with cable same size as a Catalina 30

I'm thinking that is stronger and safer.

On a single, one failure is all it takes

Either way the Bristol 27 above bought for $1,000 held together pretty well crossing three oceans at nearly 40 years old.

Both types are on the Mahina Offshore Boats list so you can argue either way.

https://mahina.com/wp-content/upload...e-Cruising.pdf

The idea is that you have three times as much (potential) trouble. It can crack, leak, develop hairline cracks, corrosion etc. in three places instead of just one place.

If you have one big chainplate that is mounted properly, it simply doesn’t fail. If you ever encounter a Sundeer 64, take a close look at those chainplates, the bolts, the bolt pattern etc. Dashew has a chain plate fetish and this is the result