Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

[elandra65]

Yes i lost the whole rig at midnight in 25 knots in a nasty steep 3m swell. The rig looked fine prior to that. You cant see corrosion in the swages and one of the cap shroud swages pulled out due to inner strands being wasted. The rig was prob as old as the boat about 17 yrs. Every boat i have bought since then i automatically renew the wires as i dont want a repeat of a very stressful event. You dont want to be worrying everytime the wind gets up when cruising especially thousands of miles from help.

It is actually not that expensive if you remove shrouds 2 at a time and replace them yourself. Inexpensive insurance and peace of mind.

Good luck

Andrew

[Aguabago]

My insurance won't cover my 16 year old rigging or any related issues. Thinking that through, if i am in a blow in the middle of the ocean and lose the rig and then subsequently have to abandon ship, then nothing is covered by insurance. A rigger inspected it and says its fine, but would cost $6k to replace.

Being of finite funds, I'm undecided on replacement, or when. But this thread is definitely food for thought.

[a64pilot]

I just replaced my 30 yr old rigging, it looked fine. I have been an aircraft inspector for years, usually level 2 NDT. Crack propagation growth in high strength steels is extremely rapid, meaning it may test fine today and break next month.
The only other thing I can think of that has not been said is that apparently some boats rigging is oversized, or said another way is less stressed than others in identical sailing conditions, it’s plausible that oversized rigging should last longer as its subjected to much less fatigue and corrosion becomes the issue then.

[Thumbs Up]

The wire itself is not just going to fail without warning. It is true that the original quality of some older rigging is better than you can get today. If you have roller furling it would be a good idea to at least replace the fore stay since you can not see it an is the source of a lot of dis-mastings. It is entirely possible to replace your rigging in increments without taking the mast down. The most likely culprits of dis- mastings are probably chain plate or stem fitting failures and the bottom swages. It is also true that new rigging can fail due to a defect. But since you are asking the question, it means that you have doubts. You will never have peace of mind when the wind picks up now until you replace or at least do a dye penetration test on everything. If you do not have externally mounted chainplates, you should start there. If your cap shrouds and forestay don't fail it is unlikely that you will lose the rig. Stalok makes extra long "repair" fittings which I am using this year to replace my lower swages. My wire looks great so I will reuse it for now. I did order a new forestay and am installing new chainplates. I am calling it a partial rig replacement.

[thinwater]

Interestingly, no one mentioned redesigning aspects of rigging that failed prematurely (less then 20 years). I find that pretty strange given that if it failed (as early as 6 years) there is a very probability it was under built.

Seems even more obvious and defensible that the "replace it after 10 years" mantra, that so far we have not seen a statistical support for. Re-engineering, on the other hand, has an inescapable logic (parts that are over strength do not fatigue).

In fact, if I were to replace my rigging, I would go up a gauge. I did on my first boat after an early failure (crack). I also redesigned the toggle.

[TreblePlink]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Interestingly, no one mentioned redesigning aspects of rigging that failed prematurely (less then 20 years). I find that pretty strange given that if it failed (as early as 6 years) there is a very probability it was under built.

Seems even more obvious and defensible that the "replace it after 10 years" mantra, that so far we have not seen a statistical support for. Re-engineering, on the other hand, has an inescapable logic (parts that are over strength do not fatigue).

In fact, if I were to replace my rigging, I would go up a gauge. I did on my first boat after an early failure (crack). I also redesigned the toggle.

Quote from a friend retired from communication tower rigging:

"Nothing too strong ever broke."


On my 28 foot sloop, everything is 1/4" stainless with the shroud chainplates at the toerail. That seems conservative. I hope so anyway.

[Boatguy30]

Some here seem to ridicule those who purchase insurance and choose to follow accepted industry guidelines. I’m not really sure that’s good advice for your average sailor.

However, to another extreme. I have a customer that replaced all his standing rigging and I think chainplates on a well respected 44’ cruising design. This work was all done within the last 2 years. His insurer is now saying he needs a complete rigging inspection completed this year to be covered offshore. Wouldn’t the receipts from the work performed be adequate? This does seem like going to far.

[sailjumanji]

Had the port shroud break 2-3 strands about six feet down from the connection. Was around 2012, on a 2002 boat. Was doing a race, and looked up and saw the strands had broken and were coming unwound. No wear in that area, nothing rubbed, could not explain it. Took down the sails and motored in. Had shrouds and forestay replaced then. In 2015, we took down the mast to install conduit for radar, rewire, new lights, etc., and had all standing rigging replaced then before we headed out on Bahamas trip. Including the mast stays and all fittings.

I want to be able to depend on my rig. We've been caught in 32 knot sustained winds, double reefed, and pushing the boat hard as we were racing. Watching the mast pump in the gusts, you really want to make sure the rigging is good. Having it come down mid ocean is a pretty solid way to assure my wife never gets back on the boat again, or worse.

Oh, and my BIL has a late 90's Catalina 27 with original rigging. But its a fresh water boat, and the mast and sails are much smaller than mine. Plus I think cat loads get much higher as monohulls tend to heal and unload in high wind. My guess.

[Boatguy30]

Yep, lots of boats barely ever sail. One forum member claims “my sta-loks look great after 21 years in tropics” yet I happen to know his boat has been tucked up a creek near New Bern for the last 10 years. Is that really “severe tropical conditions”??

Enjoy your sailing!

[Dulcesuenos]

I was looking at my rig this morning since this thread sparked my interest. Guess what I found on our lower diamond stay....we just spend 6 months sailing all over the Bahamas followed with dry tortugas, keys to ft pierce trips. So lucky we didn't lose our mast.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

I was looking at my rig this morning since this thread sparked my interest. Guess what I found on our lower diamond stay....we just spend 6 months sailing all over the Bahamas followed with dry tortugas, keys to ft pierce trips. So lucky we didn't lose our mast.
Attachment 160267

Yep, crevice corrosion is easy to miss in stainless fittings...and then it fails suddenly.

[Boatguy30]

Yep those type toggles will do that. Mind if I use that picture on my Facebook page? How old? 20 years??

[Tessellate]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

I was looking at my rig this morning since this thread sparked my interest. Guess what I found on our lower diamond stay....we just spend 6 months sailing all over the Bahamas followed with dry tortugas, keys to ft pierce trips. So lucky we didn't lose our mast.
Attachment 160267

Looks like you have a whole bunch of lines jammed under that toggle? That would defeat some of the toggling ability of the toggle I would think (yes the lines will compress some under load, but still not good). Those toggles are supposed to have 2-directional freedom of motion - you only have one direction unencumbered. Still would've failed (corrosion is corrosion), but might have held on a bit longer.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Tessellate

My Navtec rod rig was 33 years old when I replaced it last year. No failures. I know a few boats going on 40 years with rod.

So why did you replace it when it was 33 years old? That after all is "just a number."

Of course none of us have ever seen a rig in the marina that failed. Those masts are at the bottom of the sea. It's like saying people will live to 100 years old because all the 100 year old people I have ever seen were alive.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by Tessellate

Looks like you have a whole bunch of lines jammed under that toggle? That would defeat some of the toggling ability of the toggle I would think (yes the lines will compress some under load, but still not good). Those toggles are supposed to have 2-directional freedom of motion - you only have one direction unencumbered. Still would've failed (corrosion is corrosion), but might have held on a bit longer.

Still has almost an inch of space to move but hopefully never moves that much.