Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

[model 10]

Do you orient the jaw on the sheet end the opposite direction for each pole? When you release the sheet on a genoa, it falls down and out, on a spinnaker it fly's up and out?

[slug]

Originally Posted by Ecos

Do you orient the jaw on the sheet end the opposite direction for each pole? When you release the sheet on a genoa, it falls down and out, on a spinnaker it fly's up and out?

When you trigger the pole end , the spi pole must drop down to free itself from the sheet

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by PNWSalmon

Could you share the reason they gave for this?

I had inquired about whether a fixed or adjustable pole would be best for my 37' doing double duty for our 110% and 140% genoas.

They said "Fixed length is going to be your best bet from a weight and strength standpoint for both jibs."

So a spinnaker pole is more robust.

And a spinnaker pole is lighter than a whisker pole since its only one wall construction instead of having a tube inside a tube (that was initially surprising to me, but obvious on reflection).

On our 37' boat they said the whisker pole would weigh 40lbs compared to 25 lbs for a spinnaker pole. That's a big deal when working foredeck.

So this left me scratching my head as to why anyone would want the fancy adjustable pole they sell. And why an experienced blue water sailor like Kretschmer would be touting it.

I guess an adjustable could get the 140% clew out a lot farther when fully unfurled, but as mentioned in the thread above that's a pretty lubberly perceived attribute for passage making.

We no longer carry the 140% on the boat and only use the 110% as the performance difference is negligible, and I have no desire to change headsails at sea.

And if I am feeling racy, having the spinnaker pole allows us to fly a regular symmetrical chute out of a turtle (with no sock, thank you!). The turtled chute is much smaller and lighter than the 140% to store aboard.

I am continually amazed that most of what I learned from racing is just dumb for cruising. Anyone else feel that way?

[two-rocks]

Originally Posted by slug

When you trigger the pole end , the spi pole must drop down to free itself from the sheet

With a spinnaker.
I would never, and have never, used my whisker pole on my genoa that way.

You want the sheet to drop from a whisker pole.

[JPA Cate]

We use the genoa with the spinnaker pole's jaws facing up, also. The pole jaws are too high for the sheet to lead properly to furl the sail.

We set ours up so that the pole is stabilized and we can almost completely get rid of the headsail, but it won't roll up in a tidy harbor foil. Our pole is stored up our mast, for convenience of setting the sail. The downside of this is if one loses the mast overboard, one also loses the pole (the means of a possible jury rig.) (Long story behind this knowledge, not telling it again now.)

However, the point is that jaws up, when the sail is mostly rolled up, then the pole can be freed from the sheet and secured on its pad eye on the deck next to the mast. Next, is tension on the sheet, and finishing rolling up the sail.

Ann

[PNWSalmon]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, that's super helpful. I can see what you're saying and the reasons they recommendation makes sense. The symmetric spinnaker pole that came with out boat (Selden) is gigantic (diameter wise) and pretty darn heavy. It's really a bear to handle. The whole reason we're looking for a change is the weight, so this gives us more incentive to go with just a lighter pole instead of a whisker pole. This has been a really instructive thread.


And yes, former racing sailor here. I wouldn't say what I learned from racing is useless, it's just usually unnecessary or backwards in a lot of cases, like you say. One small example, I gave up taping our split rings all over the boat like we did on the race boat all the time. Really not an issue on the cruising boat. So many other examples

Originally Posted by Journeyman

I had inquired about whether a fixed or adjustable pole would be best for my 37' doing double duty for our 110% and 140% genoas.

They said "Fixed length is going to be your best bet from a weight and strength standpoint for both jibs."

So a spinnaker pole is more robust.

And a spinnaker pole is lighter than a whisker pole since its only one wall construction instead of having a tube inside a tube (that was initially surprising to me, but obvious on reflection).

On our 37' boat they said the whisker pole would weigh 40lbs compared to 25 lbs for a spinnaker pole. That's a big deal when working foredeck.

So this left me scratching my head as to why anyone would want the fancy adjustable pole they sell. And why an experienced blue water sailor like Kretschmer would be touting it.

I guess an adjustable could get the 140% clew out a lot farther when fully unfurled, but as mentioned in the thread above that's a pretty lubberly perceived attribute for passage making.

We no longer carry the 140% on the boat and only use the 110% as the performance difference is negligible, and I have no desire to change headsails at sea.

And if I am feeling racy, having the spinnaker pole allows us to fly a regular symmetrical chute out of a turtle (with no sock, thank you!). The turtled chute is much smaller and lighter than the 140% to store aboard.

I am continually amazed that most of what I learned from racing is just dumb for cruising. Anyone else feel that way?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by two-rocks

Ignore the picture above. They seem to have a spinnaker and poled out sail.

No, that is Flyer, a ketch, and they have a nylon sail flying from the mizzen.

The genoa, poled out, as shown, is how it works, however they have a bit too much breeze.

We have used our spinnaker pole to "pole out" jibs for decades. It works best with a working jib, not a genoa. It can even work on broad reaching with the jib slightly to windward. A regular spinnaker pole is better than a whicker pole because it is stronger.

You can sort of see how it looks with a working jib poled out in my avatar photo.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

I had inquired about whether a fixed or adjustable pole would be best for my 37' doing double duty for our 110% and 140% genoas.

They said "Fixed length is going to be your best bet from a weight and strength standpoint for both jibs."

So a spinnaker pole is more robust.

And a spinnaker pole is lighter than a whisker pole since its only one wall construction instead of having a tube inside a tube (that was initially surprising to me, but obvious on reflection).

On our 37' boat they said the whisker pole would weigh 40lbs compared to 25 lbs for a spinnaker pole. That's a big deal when working foredeck.

So this left me scratching my head as to why anyone would want the fancy adjustable pole they sell. And why an experienced blue water sailor like Kretschmer would be touting it.

I guess an adjustable could get the 140% clew out a lot farther when fully unfurled, but as mentioned in the thread above that's a pretty lubberly perceived attribute for passage making.

We no longer carry the 140% on the boat and only use the 110% as the performance difference is negligible, and I have no desire to change headsails at sea.

And if I am feeling racy, having the spinnaker pole allows us to fly a regular symmetrical chute out of a turtle (with no sock, thank you!). The turtled chute is much smaller and lighter than the 140% to store aboard.

I am continually amazed that most of what I learned from racing is just dumb for cruising. Anyone else feel that way?

I think there is no better way to learn sailing than to be part of a serious and active racing crew for a year. Racers try everything. As a cruiser you can pick and choose what to do if you've learned it from racing

I am constantly using skills and techniques I learned from years of racing and I think you just have to use some common sense.

We use a 18' 4 inch spinnaker pole for jibs, symmetrical spinnakers, (not with sock!), and to pull back the tack of asymmetrical kites. It is kept on deck. We do it double handed. Manhandling it around on the foredeck by yourself is a bear in the open ocean when the waves are up but I can do it with Judy in the cockpit handling the lines. Make sure the pole is attached! What I'd really like is a carbon pole, they are way lighter, you can hold one in one hand, but pricey.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Ecos

Do you orient the jaw on the sheet end the opposite direction for each pole? When you release the sheet on a genoa, it falls down and out, on a spinnaker it fly's up and out?

The jaws on the pole must be up so that you can lower the pole tip away from the sheet and down to the deck while the jib continues to fly. It must be rigged with a downhaul or foreguy to control it. We also put the pole lift on.

When jibing with a polled out jib you lower the pole tip to the foredeck, jibe the main then take the lazy jib sheet to the pole jaws, raise the pole and work it back until the jib fills on the opposite side of the boat (wing on wing). You could only do this with the jaws up.

[jehatblueh2o]

Someone mentioned track failure as the #1 problem with using whisker poles. While it will likely differ between boats it would seem best to skip use of the genoa track altogether; instead, run the genoa sheet further back to a snatch block and then to the winch. This would provide a less severe sheet angle and zero stress on the genoa track.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by jehatblueh2o

Someone mentioned track failure as the #1 problem with using whisker poles. While it will likely differ between boats it would seem best to skip use of the genoa track altogether; instead, run the genoa sheet further back to a snatch block and then to the winch. This would provide a less severe sheet angle and zero stress on the genoa track.

Believe the track they were talking about is the spinnaker car track on the mast. The pole puts a lot of compression load at right angles on that track which has been known to bring the stick down and/or pulled the track fasteners out of the mast.

I set up the pole so it is fixed in place with a fore and after guy, topping lift and downhaul. The head sail sheet only controls the sail, not the pole. That allows changing the position of wear on the sheet at the pole jaw. The sheet will wear where it passes through the pole jaw on a long passage. Had the sheet wear when I didn't vary the position for the first two days and only discovered the wear when the whisker pole pretzeled. After that changed the sheet position in the jaw once a day. It only involved a few inch change in the sheet position.

[Shaneesprit]

Why not just try it and see if it works for you
On occasions I have used my boat hook lashed to the rigging, for a pole at times as I mostly have no need to carry a pole, although I quite often sail downwind full goose

[Departing2017]

Originally Posted by stormalong

As Paul said, you can partially furl it but I think the wear on the sail would destroy it.

I can confirm this from a lesson learned the hard way. Partially furled with the pole up, the foot and leach chafed through the sun cover.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Departing2017

I can confirm this from a lesson learned the hard way. Partially furled with the pole up, the foot and leach chafed through the sun cover.

Yah , furled sails take a beating


Best to carry the correct downwind sail for long ocean passages

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Believe the track they were talking about is the spinnaker car track on the mast. The pole puts a lot of compression load at right angles on that track which has been known to bring the stick down and/or pulled the track fasteners out of the mast.

I set up the pole so it is fixed in place with a fore and after guy, topping lift and downhaul. The head sail sheet only controls the sail, not the pole. That allows changing the position of wear on the sheet at the pole jaw. The sheet will wear where it passes through the pole jaw on a long passage. Had the sheet wear when I didn't vary the position for the first two days and only discovered the wear when the whisker pole pretzeled. After that changed the sheet position in the jaw once a day. It only involved a few inch change in the sheet position.

Wrapping the end of the sheet with sacrificial duct tape also prevents the sheet from chafing on the jaws.