Using an Assy Spinnaker

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Perfect

You know the race will be 900m of up wind sailing now you have a spinnaker

Sure, but not if I don't sort the pole car!

[Pete7]

Do you still have the original 30mm car and what is it made of?

Btw, you don't actually need a pole for an asym spinnaker, but it would be useful to sort out so you can use the pole if need be.

Pete

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I've got an issue with the spinnaker pole car.

The old one didn't fit (ring was too small) and I got rid of it.

I have a car which came with the pole, but the problem is my track is 30 RCB and this car is for a 32mm T-track.

The rigger says I shouldn't just rip the track off and replace it because it will weaken the mast.

I could machine the car slightly and it would fit, but I'm afraid it would rip the alu track up -- I'm not sure this connection would be that strong.

So what to do?

If I can fit a simple ring to the mast at the yankee clew height -- a 2.5 meters maybe above the waterline -- will it cause problems with running the A2? If I can't keep the pole exactly horizontal?

I don't really understand the forces involved.

Grateful for any advice.

I am usually careful to avoid jury rigged solutions on my own boat so I WOULD advise putting on the 32mm track. This makes it a standard solution and not something that the next owner will think is screwed up.

I don't understand the rigger's concern about removing one track and putting on another. OK there night be a dozen unused holes if the holes don't line up. Mostly I'd be worried about getting out the old screws, these can be tough.

Adding a 32mm track on top of the 30mm will not weaken it, it will strengthen it, but it will be a bit of a jury rig solution. Well, maybe never mind, it will be fast to do and and easy.

Machining the car to fit will not cause the car to chew up the track as long as the inside of the car after machining is smooth and a good fit.

AND putting a ring on will work, the height adjustment is not often needed on the butt end when using the pole with an assym kite. But a standard ring may not be strong enough. I once had a ring like that break on a previous boat and wound up losing the mast because of it. If you do put one on (with a car?) make it low, around shoulder height. You want the pole to be horizontal (level, neither end higher or lower than the other) when it is being used with the asymmetrical, and in that case the pole will need to be very low especially when tight reaching, or higher when running. I would not be happy with a ring attachment on my boat. Anyhow, what kind of inboard end fitting does the pole have? Usually on the kind of pole you have the inboard end will not work on a ring.

One thing you may find is that moving the car up or down on the mast track, when loaded, will be quite difficult. Unloading it is the only way to make it easier.

[Joli]

The quickest and easiest solution would be to have a machine shop make delrin sleeves to make up the 1 mm gap. Plastic inserts are a well and commonly used solution for T car fittings, they were very common before roller cars. Just use your 32 mm car with inserts on your 30 mm track.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Joli

The quickest and easiest solution would be to have a machine shop make delrin sleeves to make up the 1 mm gap. Plastic inserts are a well and commonly used solution for T car fittings, they were very common before roller cars. Just use your 32 mm car with inserts on your 30 mm track.

The problem is that the tracks are a different shape. So the 32mm T track car doesn't even fit over the 30mm RCB track. I would have to machine out something in the car, then I don't think there would be room for Delrin.


But I do think I will consult with a machinist in the morning on Monday.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The problem is that the tracks are a different shape. So the 32mm T track car doesn't even fit over the 30mm RCB track. I would have to machine out something in the car, then I don't think there would be room for Delrin.

But I do think I will consult with a machinist in the morning on Monday.

I finally read this thread closely enough to thin I understand the issue.

You have 30mm RCB track. (you didn't specify the vendor, maybe it's Seldon, maybe it's Z-spar, maybe some other one).

Yes you'll need a car that fits that track.

Possibly you can have one made (without the balls which would normally come in it) and if so, yes, have some Teflon or other plastic in it as a bushing.

But me, I'd really bite the bullet and buy a RCB car for that track. You will get a much more low friction car, one which is designed for that purpose. Get one with bales, so you can attach lines to move it, not a pin., and to fit your pole end receiver.

Get some photos of the track (particularly the end section of it) and some very precise dimensions and get someone such as rig rite ( Z-Spar Batten Cars) get one for you, and make sure the prod they put on it matches your pole receiver, but get right on it, because they might be hard to find.

[Joli]

I would guess machining a SS car that fits your pole end fitting would be the quickest and easiest. Are the pole fittings from Tylaska? They may already make a car that fits your track?

https://www.tylaska.com/product-cate...-end-hardware/

Looks like Mauri may have your car.

https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/p...L51155404.html

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Joli

I would guess machining a SS car that fits your pole end fitting would be the quickest and easiest. Are the pole fittings from Tylaska? They may already make a car that fits your track?

https://www.tylaska.com/product-cate...-end-hardware/

Looks like Mauri may have your car.

https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/p...L51155404.html

My car is the 511-536-02 Selden one, with the ring, but the ring is far too small for my pole to fit, and I have some doubts about whether it is strong enough. It says it's rated for 120kNm, which is a measure of torque and a big figure, but the device itself doesn't quite seem robust enough.


Plan "A" at the moment is to buy one of these and weld on a bigger ring. But before ordering one of those, I think first thing in the morning I will go to the machinist with my existing car and see what he thinks.



Yes, my pole ends seem to come from Tylaska. But they don't seem to make a car.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

My car is the 511-536-02 Selden one, with the ring, but the ring is far too small for my pole to fit, and I have some doubts about whether it is strong enough. It says it's rated for 120kNm, which is a measure of torque and a big figure, but the device itself doesn't quite seem robust enough.

Plan "A" at the moment is to buy one of these and weld on a bigger ring. But before ordering one of those, I think first thing in the morning I will go to the machinist with my existing car and see what he thinks.

Yes, my pole ends seem to come from Tylaska. But they don't seem to make a car.

So your pole has jaws at both ends? That is surprising if it is a TP52 pole.

OK make it strong.

[Joli]

Very strange indeed. You think they end for ended the pole on a Tp52?

Maybe buy the inboard end and the standard fitting and remove the jaw? Is it a 4" carbon pole? Then you can use an of the shelf 30 mm car.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Joli

Very strange indeed. You think they end for ended the pole on a Tp52?

Maybe buy the inboard end and the standard fitting and remove the jaw? Is it a 4" carbon pole? Then you can use an of the shelf 30 mm car.

It's much bigger than 4". It is quite a massive pole. Changing the pole end is one possible solution. The rigger will be here tomorrow and I'll consult with him on this.

[Joli]

Our pole is 6" also but it uses standard 4" socket with a collet to match the pole. I'll try to post a picture of our socket end with the collet. I'm really surprised there is a jaw on both ends. I'll post our jaw end also.

[Joli]

The jaw, outboard end, is 4", the pole is tapered. The socket end is 6" with a collet. These are Tylaska fittings which are actually Sparcraft fittings from way back when... Can you post photos?

First photo is the socket end, inboard end, this is a 6" tube with a collet to match the 4" fitting.

The second photo is the outboard end with the jaw, the tube is tapered to 4" to accommodate the jaw fitting.

Don't mind the rust, we have just sailed to the Chesapeake from the Caribbean and haven't finished cleaning yet.

The donkey dick that fits in the socket is on a Sparcraft car. If you need a photo of it let me know.

It sounds like you just need the correct fittings from Tylaska and you can use your existing 30mm track.

[kmcshane]

Ronstan top-down furlers for asymmetrical spinnakers and gennakers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LRSCZy6sR8

[SaltyMetals]

Dockhead, lots of good advice all through this thread but i would not mess around w yr spi pole. On my prev boat the tack of the assy spi was right next to the tack of the genoa. Bad news. Too easy to get a wrap of the spi around the forestay. I hv fitted a Selden removable sprit on my current boat which gives plenty of distance from the forestay. I also chose a continuous line furling system and then have all lines coming back into the cockpit. My assy spi was made by North, Gosport and all the fittings, furler etc was specced by AllSpars, Hamble. It is a 100 sq m assy and uses 10mm braid-on-braid sheets.
Andrew
"Genial Bee"