Walder Boom Brake Installation

[JebLostInSpace]

So I just got a Walder boom brake. I've long been dissatisfied with my preventer setup, so I finally decided to try out the boom brake solution. I have several questions about the install for this device after playing around with it a bit yesterday. I'm hoping someone with firsthand experience can chime in and advise.

I did a temporary install yesterday just to see how it would all look. I don't currently have the hardware for a proper mount on the boom, so I hung the brake from a short line around the boom and the vang attachment, which brings me to my first question. The literature says that the boom brake can replace the vang, and I am tempted to remove mine and use the vang's attachment hardware for the brake. The problem is, I have a rigid vang vs. a rope one. I also have shrouds that are swept far aft, and no backstay or topping lift. If I remove the vang, the only thing holding the boom up (when sails are down) are the lazy jacks. Should I be worried about that?

Since this was a temporary test install, I also didn't quite use the right line. What I had on hand was 1mm too big, but seemed to fit in the grooves of the brake nicely. It's also some kind of poly or nylon crap that has quite a bit of stretch to it. When I rigged it up, I got everything tensioned and looking right, but I found that I couldn't swing the boom by hand, even with all tension out of the control line. The control line just wouldn't slide around the grooves of the brake without a bit of coaxing. I decided to try it anyway since it was a great light wind day. First 2 gybes went fine. The boom swung in sort of jerks and starts, but it did swing through, and with much less violence than a crash gybe without the brake. Later in the day, we got up to about 10kts of apparent downwind. Tried it again, and had an interesting failure. The boom swung halfway over (so it was centered), then stopped. I took all of the tension out of the control line. This gybe was bringing the boom from the side with the line anchored at a shroud over to the side where the control line leads aft. When I took the tension out from the cockpit, the line went slack from the cockpit to the brake, but the line wouldn't move around the brake, so the loaded side stayed tight. After maybe 10 seconds with it stuck in that position, the line failed and the boom swung across the rest of the way. A bit exciting, but luckily no damage other than the broken control line.

My assumption is the slightly too big line wasn't able to slide through the grooves properly. And also that the stretchy line allowed it to "grip" the brake and prevent it sliding. My thought is to get some properly sized dyneema. That way I won't have any worries about breaking strength, it won't stretch, and it should be pretty slick to help the line around. I am wondering why I had such problems though, it seems odd that a slightly big and slightly stretchy line would be enough to completely prevent the brake from working. Curious if anyone has other theories before I buy some pricey dyneema. Could the rope attachment to the boom have had too much "slop" vs a proper hardware attachment, and caused some sort of twisting issue? I've seen videos of these installs with soft rope attachments, but I dunno.

[thinwater]

Just so that you know, a brake is not a preventer in anything more than light winds. You can break the line or the boom. In fact, I spoke with a factory guy about this last week.


And absolutely NOT Dyneema. The manufacture is adamant about this. Read the manual.


Yes, I have used them. Yes, they can be finicky. I'd rather control the boom using the traveler and sheet.

[Recy]

Originally Posted by thinwater

J


And absolutely NOT Dyneema. The manufacture is adamant about this. Read the manual.

Where i the manual does it say not to use dyneema?

https://boom-brake-walder.com/how-to...our-boombrake/

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by Recy

Where i the manual does it say not to use dyneema?

https://boom-brake-walder.com/how-to...our-boombrake/

I also couldn't find that in the manual, the only thing I found was that the line should not stretch. But I did send a note to Walder and they replied that they don't recommend Dyneema. Currently looking into maybe Sta-Set or something similar.

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Just so that you know, a brake is not a preventer in anything more than light winds. You can break the line or the boom. In fact, I spoke with a factory guy about this last week.


And absolutely NOT Dyneema. The manufacture is adamant about this. Read the manual.


Yes, I have used them. Yes, they can be finicky. I'd rather control the boom using the traveler and sheet.

Thanks for the reply. I'm aware it's not a preventer, that is in fact the point. The brake system lets the boom swing but absorbs much of the energy of the gybe. This makes it less likely to break the boom than the preventer. Especially my preventer setup which doesn't allow for very quick and easy easing of the preventer line. That's why I decided to go for the brake. Hopefully I'll get the kinks worked out over the next few sails. There's a reason I did my first test run on a day that maxed out at 10kts

[wholybee]

A few notes from when I tried a Walder boom brake:
The geometry is critical. Attaching to the vang location may or may not work. And where on the rail it needs attached is also critical. Your chainplates may or may not be in the correct location. Spend time with this and study the manual.

You need free winch on both sides of the boat. A winch on only one side, and the brake will only work properly on that tack. And cleats are out of the question. You mentioned that you didn't have a way to ease a preventer. If you don't have winches available and the preventer was on a cleat, the brake won't work. It needs to be on a winch.

The tension on the brake changes with wind strength, assuming you want the boom to come over nice and easy during a jibe. Several times I was sailing in light air, and I forgot to re-adjust as the wind picked up. Jibe, and the brake was useless. Or, if the wind speed drops, then it turns into a preventer.

So, with the above in mind, I tried just having it tight, as a preventer, and then I would just ease it during a jibe to control the boom. It turned my boom into a noodle. Never "prevent" a boom from near the vang location. Fortunately, my boom didn't break, and returned to very near straight once released. But it was nearly a very bad situation.

After a few dozen sails and lots of experimenting, I went back to a traditional preventer, but spent some time setting it up properly. Brakes work well on some boats, apparently, but didn't work out for me.

[JebLostInSpace]

Thanks for the reply Wholybee.

"You need free winch on both sides of the boat. A winch on only one side, and the brake will only work properly on that tack."

This is specifically contrary to the information provided by Walder. The main advantage of the brake for me is that it needs to be led aft only on one side of the brake. I have a winch available on starboard, but not on port. This is why my preventer setup is so unsatisfying. I can run a proper preventer on starboard but not port. The Walder brake is supposed to be controlled by adjusting tension of the whole system by tightening/easing the single control line. I'm wondering if you had an earlier model, a different type of brake, or if maybe you also experienced performance that didn't match the theory of the thing.

I'm still hopeful that the proper line will set me straight, and grateful to this forum for clueing me in that dyneema was not a good choice (I'm still not clear on WHY it's a bad choice, but Walder confirmed it so fair 'nuff).

[Matt Johnson]

We used a Walder for many miles and loved it. The correct size/type of line is very important - as is clean line (we would wash it a few times a year).

Instead of a winch, we used a small dinghy 6:1 block and tackle with a cam cleat on one side of the boat. Worked very well to ease or tighten the line for complete control without a winch.

Matt

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

We used a Walder for many miles and loved it. The correct size/type of line is very important - as is clean line (we would wash it a few times a year).

Instead of a winch, we used a small dinghy 6:1 block and tackle with a cam cleat on one side of the boat. Worked very well to ease or tighten the line for complete control without a winch.

Matt

You use the past tense - I'm wondering why you stopped using it?

[Cheyne]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

You use the past tense - I'm wondering why you stopped using it?

Pry because they sold the boat to build the new boat.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Recy

Where i the manual does it say not to use dyneema?

https://boom-brake-walder.com/how-to...our-boombrake/

Perhaps a longer manual comes with it. I spoke with the designer; polyester double braid is preferred. Also not nylon.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Thanks for the reply. I'm aware it's not a preventer, that is in fact the point. The brake system lets the boom swing but absorbs much of the energy of the gybe. This makes it less likely to break the boom than the preventer. Especially my preventer setup which doesn't allow for very quick and easy easing of the preventer line. That's why I decided to go for the brake. Hopefully I'll get the kinks worked out over the next few sails. There's a reason I did my first test run on a day that maxed out at 10kts

You can still break the boom or line if it is over tensioned. The manufacture recommends a 3:1 hand tackle (depends on boat size) and light to moderate hand tension. Only finger tip pressure on a winch. A tackle is preferred, because the adjustment is more accurate (3x more line movement).

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Thanks for the reply Wholybee.

"You need free winch on both sides of the boat. A winch on only one side, and the brake will only work properly on that tack."

This is specifically contrary to the information provided by Walder....

But it is what the designer will tell you. Adjustments on both sides are better because of line stretch.


And who has a spare winch under all circumstances? Those secondaries are in use when the chute is up. Maybe it's used to down haul the genoa sheet or wisker pole. I would hate to tie it up with the brake, or not have the brake when I needed it most. This is why a tackle makes sense.

[Pegu Club]

We just recently installed a Walder boom brake on our 29.9, we removed our boom vang and attached Walder on the bale that the vang was previously attached to. Still early days and getting used to it, but we like it so far. We chatted with the Walder guy at the Annapolis boat show, he did say only two wraps around the drum ( for our size boat ). We ran the line toe rail to toe rail and routed it via a cheek block back to the cockpit through a clutch to a winch on the cabin top. It does act as a boom vang, and we still shape the sail with the sheet and traveller. Hope it works out for you,

Fair winds,

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Thanks for the reply Wholybee.

"You need free winch on both sides of the boat. A winch on only one side, and the brake will only work properly on that tack."

This is specifically contrary to the information provided by Walder. The main advantage of the brake for me is that it needs to be led aft only on one side of the brake. I have a winch available on starboard, but not on port. This is why my preventer setup is so unsatisfying. I can run a proper preventer on starboard but not port. The Walder brake is supposed to be controlled by adjusting tension of the whole system by tightening/easing the single control line. I'm wondering if you had an earlier model, a different type of brake, or if maybe you also experienced performance that didn't match the theory of the thing.

I'm still hopeful that the proper line will set me straight, and grateful to this forum for clueing me in that dyneema was not a good choice (I'm still not clear on WHY it's a bad choice, but Walder confirmed it so fair 'nuff).

With a winch on only one side of the boat, on the "other" tack, trimming that winch to adjust the tension will also trim the boom towards center as the slack in the brake line is taken up. Also, causing the main sheet to go slack. It does sort of work, you can then trim in the main sheet again, but you can't get the boom really far out on that one side if you are sailing really deep.
On the "proper" side of the boat, the winch you trim with will work against the main sheet, so the boom won't move, and will become very stable.

I tried it with both winches and tackle. The tackle works too, but added to the complexity, finding (or installing) a hard point in the right place to secure the tackle, and getting the length right took work. In my case the location the tackle needed to be was gouging my teak. The winches worked better for me, but I think that is very boat specific.
I used generic double-braid from WM. That part worked fine for me.

With a traditional preventer setup, you only need one winch. A preventor for either tack can go to the bow and come to whatever side of the boat your winch is on. And only one preventer needs to be on the winch at a time, the other is coiled next to it ready to swap when you jibe.

Good luck with the Brake. I was very close to liking it, just couldn't get all the kinks worked out on my boat.