What is this and what does it do?

[sepharad]

My boat is about to be rigged after 3 years. The standing rigging has 2 of these devices built in-line. They look like a shock absorber or adjustment device. What are they called and what do they do? They are made by a company called Ronstan, but I had no luck finding them in the online catalog. They are likely about 30 years old.

[djs]

Look like insulators. To enable standing rigging (usually backstay) to be used as an antenna for a HF radio.

[sepharad]

Thank you! I wondered if it had to do with HF radio, which once existed on this boat.


Should this run of wire be replaced with a single strand and the insulators removed, now that the boat has no HF radio?

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by sepharad

Should this run of wire be replaced with a single strand and the insulators removed, now that the boat has no HF radio?

Yes, do not re-install; cheaper as well without them, as that would 4 crimps less to do. That is of course if you do not have plans to get an HF radio, and then again, to reinstall items that are of that indicated age (30 years)..... maybe that is another reason not to install.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

Yes, do not re-install; cheaper as well without them, as that would 4 crimps less to do. That is of course if you do not have plans to get an HF radio, and then again, to reinstall items that are of that indicated age (30 years)..... maybe that is another reason not to install.

I doubt that these insulators are not working anymore even after that many years, unlikely that they fail.

If you do not need them anymore and you are certain not to need them anymore, do the kind thing and give them to someone here on the forum who like to have them.

Don't just throw them away.

[johnn33]

Ronstan are going strong; in Portugal
https://www.ronstan.com/marine/country.asp?cid=163
and
https://www.ronstan.com/marine/
John

[capblasters]

Just wondering . . . would this be the usual way of putting an HF antenna on board a sailing yacht? I ask because I am planning to install an HF radio / antenna to compliment the VHF. My standing rigging will be due for replacement in the coming year or two. If this is the 'standard' antenna configuration, then I should plan both together.

Or are there other alternatives?

(Apologies for changing the subject somewhat but the post reminded me to ask.)

[ozdigennaro]

A backstay antenna for HF is the best economical solution.

if you are going to install an HF radio (which I love, by the way), keep that gear! You can verify it's integrity yourself, or get some help. Simple stuff actually.
Don't forget to consider the grounding (to the ocean) of your radio system -- also very important for performance.
Oz
AC0IF

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by sepharad

Thank you! I wondered if it had to do with HF radio, which once existed on this boat.


Should this run of wire be replaced with a single strand and the insulators removed, now that the boat has no HF radio?

Your choice. If you will never have an HF/Ham radio they are just another thing that could screw up. If you're going cruising might want to keep the insulated backstay as an easy HF antenna for long distance communications.

[billgewater]

I have seen an alternative to insulated SS rigging when used as an HF antenna. If you are considering using Dyneema rigging, you can run a wire up inside the Dyneema standard rigging cable so that the antenna is actually part of the rigging. I have seen this but know little about it, so talk to an expert. HF was once really popular but it still has a good following. One issue with HF is that sometimes transmission can cause problems elsewhere. Switchboards light up. LED lights start blinking etc.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by ozdigennaro

A backstay antenna for HF is the best economical solution.

if you are going to install an HF radio (which I love, by the way), keep that gear! You can verify it's integrity yourself, or get some help. Simple stuff actually.
Don't forget to consider the grounding (to the ocean) of your radio system -- also very important for performance.
Oz
AC0IF

While I don't fuss much, consider that no trawler has the type of rigging that we blowboaters do, yet still manage effective HF comms.

Flying Pig has a 23' whip antenna, and with a monster ground poise (rails instead of lifelines, arch, 2" copper strap, large sintered bronze dynaplate directly under the radio midships, all tied together), gets booming reception according to the hams and SSB contacts I make. If we got dismasted, there's a good possibility we'd still have our HF comms.

It came with the boat, and aside from the rails and arch ties (strapping between stanchion bases at the gates and from the arch pushpit to the tuner), there's been no alteration to the prior owner's setup. Vertical is notably better at propagation vs the angled backstay.

Yet, on most boats it's plenty long, and does very well. I'm presuming you know why the insulators, and that the backstay could burn anyone touching it under transmission, leading to a relatively long pigtail between antenna and tuner, or some form of insulation over the backstay; that pigtail reduces what gain the long antenna has...

Congratulations on the boat!

[sepharad]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

While I don't fuss much, consider that no trawler has the type of rigging that we blowboaters do, yet still manage effective HF comms.

Flying Pig has a 23' whip antenna, and with a monster ground poise (rails instead of lifelines, arch, 2" copper strap, large sintered bronze dynaplate directly under the radio midships, all tied together), gets booming reception according to the hams and SSB contacts I make. If we got dismasted, there's a good possibility we'd still have our HF comms.

It came with the boat, and aside from the rails and arch ties (strapping between stanchion bases at the gates and from the arch pushpit to the tuner), there's been no alteration to the prior owner's setup. Vertical is notably better at propagation vs the angled backstay.

Yet, on most boats it's plenty long, and does very well. I'm presuming you know why the insulators, and that the backstay could burn anyone touching it under transmission, leading to a relatively long pigtail between antenna and tuner, or some form of insulation over the backstay; that pigtail reduces what gain the long antenna has...

Congratulations on the boat!

I have no idea why insulators but now am warned about cooking people.
The original owner was an actual Radio Engineer. He apparently also built experimental antennas. I suppose I will leave it for my first season. Iff I end up removing it, I will post them for a new home.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

Yet, on most boats it's plenty long, and does very well. I'm presuming you know why the insulators, and that the backstay could burn anyone touching it under transmission, leading to a relatively long pigtail between antenna and tuner, or some form of insulation over the backstay; that pigtail reduces what gain the long antenna has...

The antenna radiates RF during transmission. That is a good reason to have it up on the backstay, away from people. The rest of the backstay is not charged and does not radiate.
A 23' vertical whip antenna will radiate the same RF and should not be near humans during transmission.

The "gain" of an antenna describes its directional pattern of radiation (broadcast and reception), and has nothing to do with an increase or decrease of power. A well-matched lead line of high quality line from the antenna to radio will have little loss. Matching impedance is far more important than length of the line (pigtail?).

A vertical antenna will radiate somewhat better toward the bow and stern but the effect might not be measurable at the beams.

A standing wave in the lead line causes radios to automatically lower power to protect radio components. Most people attempt to correct a poor transmission by using more power and the radio automatically overrides this and uses only as much power as is safe for components.

The key to good transmission and reception is matching impedance between radio and the radiating antenna. This is very important for VHF as well as marine HF and HAM. This is the normal job of an antenna tuner.

[Djarraluda]

Originally Posted by capblasters

Just wondering . . . would this be the usual way of putting an HF antenna on board a sailing yacht? I ask because I am planning to install an HF radio / antenna to compliment the VHF. My standing rigging will be due for replacement in the coming year or two. If this is the 'standard' antenna configuration, then I should plan both together.

Or are there other alternatives?

(Apologies for changing the subject somewhat but the post reminded me to ask.)

Yes, backstay antennae is the best for single mast, but you could use a large whip if you prefer, although not as efficient.
Roger

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

Vertical is notably better at propagation vs the angled backstay.

What?

Putting aside the misuse of the word propagation which implies ionospheric conditions, what leads you to the generality that a sloper is always less effective than a vertical?

... that pigtail reduces what gain the long antenna has...

Congratulations on the boat!

The so-called antenna gain is a constant unaffected by the length of the feedline. What you might be referring to is the ERP of the antenna but the difference is typically negligible.