What is this stop knot?

[FabioC]

I have a question for the splicing/marlin spike experts in this forum.
I am trying to reproduce a similar splicing to a low friction ring as in the attached pictures (this is a low-friction ring for the mainsheet on a Jeanneau).
I can't figure out exactly what they have done.
The dyneema line coming from the right in the first picture is simply spliced around the ring, very easy to do.
But what about the dyneema line on top of the first line? It looks like it is a separate line that simply goes around the ring and is terminated on both sides by a stop knot, then the two stop knots are stitched together (see second picture). Here are my questions:
- I do not completely understand the function of this second line.
- What kind of stop knots are these? Can you point me to instructions on how to tie something like this?

Thank you!

[GreenWave]

Not sure what that knot is called on the small second line. However, its purpose seems to be to fill in the gap on the low friction ring due to the small rope diameter - possibly to prevent against it slipping off the ring?

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Not sure what that knot is called on the small second line. However, its purpose seems to be to fill in the gap on the low friction ring due to the small rope diameter - possibly to prevent against it slipping off the ring?

No expert here, but I agree that the thinner line seems to have just been wound around the ring to help retain the spliced halyard. There is no stopper knot that I can see. The tails have just been bent over and buried to neaten them before being wound around the ring then lashed together.

[Breaking Waves]

boy there was a lot of work done to make all that.

Got to think there was a reason.

the '2nd' line almost looks like it is designed to provide two attachment points - is there any reason this ring might want to be pulled in a direction by an extra control line? Perhaps either for 'inhauler' line or bungee like cord to uphaul or downhaul in offset/stabilize the pull from the stronger spliced loop?

it is hard to understand with the two photos. Is it a 'german' mainsheet system? Are those the floating rings also used for the jib sheets?

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Not sure what that knot is called on the small second line. However, its purpose seems to be to fill in the gap on the low friction ring due to the small rope diameter - possibly to prevent against it slipping off the ring?

Preventing the spliced line to slip off the ring is the only reason I can think of as well... However, I am not sure it is the correct answer, hence my question to the forum, since the spliced eye is very tight and would not come off for sure. Also, there are other rings on the boat (e.g., the rings for the jib sheets) that have the same kind of dyneema line with the spliced eye but no additional line over it.
Why using an additional piece of dyneema and going through the trouble of nicely knotting and stitching the ends remains a bit of a mystery to me, there may be some other reason to justify the effort...

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

boy there was a lot of work done to make all that.

Got to think there was a reason.

the '2nd' line almost looks like it is designed to provide two attachment points - is there any reason this ring might want to be pulled in a direction by an extra control line? Perhaps either for 'inhauler' line or bungee like cord to uphaul or downhaul in offset/stabilize the pull from the stronger spliced loop?

it is hard to understand with the two photos. Is it a 'german' mainsheet system? Are those the floating rings also used for the jib sheets?

Yes, these are the rings for the 'german' mainsheet. The same low-friction rings are used for the jib sheets, but those for the jib sheet do not have the second line covering the spliced eye, hence the mystery... why these rings have it and the jib sheet ones do not?...

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by FabioC

Yes, these are the rings for the 'german' mainsheet.

Well it is just a guess . . . but I guess they are for a light cord/bungee attachment to hold the block from flogging around if/when the sheet goes slack.

The jib sheet rings need adjustment in/out and up/down which the mainsheet ring does not need. So the jib rings already had two loaded 'holder lines' one spliced around the outside going inboard and a 2:1 control line thru the middle going outboard.

[StuM]

I could visualise another line cowhitched around both of those stoppers to pull the ring into a different position.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by StuM

I could visualise another line cowhitched around both of those stoppers to pull the ring into a different position.

Or a soft shackle fed through.

I still don’t think they are stoppers though, they are just two small eyes. Rather than the tails being fed through for aesthetics as I first thought, I think they were fed to create the eyes. That makes sense, as the whipping is beautifully done so it is less likely to be a crude fix to stop the halyard splice coming off.

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Or a soft shackle fed through.

I still don’t think they are stoppers though, they are just two small eyes. Rather than the tails being fed through for aesthetics as I first thought, I think they were fed to create the eyes. That makes sense, as the whipping is beautifully done so it is less likely to be a crude fix to stop the halyard splice coming off.

Upon further thought, I think you are likely right. The two tails are simply fed back to make the thicker shape so they could whip it nicely. It would be very difficult to tie two stop knots so tightly and the end result may not be as tidy as this one.

[boatman61]

To me they look like two small Monkey's Fists whipped together.
The Monkey's Fists prevent any chance of the ends slipping through the whipping.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Or a soft shackle fed through.

I still don’t think they are stoppers though, they are just two small eyes. Rather than the tails being fed through for aesthetics as I first thought, I think they were fed to create the eyes. That makes sense, as the whipping is beautifully done so it is less likely to be a crude fix to stop the halyard splice coming off.

I think so! In fact, a brilliant way to make a second adjustment line removable. I may try that on my Barber hauler lines, since 90% of the time I use them only for outhaul, but 10% of the time I might add a downhaul function. That would save having the second line on there when not needed.


I might just put a composite toggle through the loops and then put a loop in the end of the control line. I want to minimize metal clanging about. I need to consider the possibilities.

[MikeHoncho]

Looks like it’s there to prevent the hard ring from smacking on the boat, like a ring bumper

[Micron]

The thinner ropes look as if terminated with a Turk's head knot.