What's better for installing aluminum mast steps: rivets or tapped threads?

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

What techniques are those that allow you to easily climb the mast without help and take the necessary tools along to complete a job. Steps sure sound easy. Climb up wearing a harness and clip/unclip every so often.

I'm a boulder so only have limited rock climbing knowledge when it comes to ropework. I'm guessing using ascenders, but won't they wear the lines pretty quickly?

With the equipment I use I don't actually use the ascenders on the halyard, I connect a dedicated climbing line to the halyard and haul it to the mast head then use it for ascending, as you suggest, this prevents any damage to the halyard....


This is the kit I use and the first video shows sending the climbing line up, good gear but not cheap...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoUq_rco_RI

Aloft Alone instructional videos - Aloft Alone

[estarzinger]

^^ oh yea, forgot to mention that. I have two specific sections of climbing line - one sized to go to just above the first spreaders and one to the masthead - which I hoist on a halyard and climb that line.

I mainly did this because the climbing gear is designed to work with climbing line and just works more smoothly. I actually did not find the gear to rip up the halyards much, but it can't hurt to protect the working halyards.

[David B]

Originally Posted by out42

Tefgel is definitely the current hot stuff, but it is very slippery. Duralac isn't, and sets seemingly almost as hard as loctite thereby doing two good things in one........

Thanks for the insight Steve - appreciated.
David

[bratzcpa]

Followup - from the OP:

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Wow, I learned a lot. A couple of thoughts in response to the comments.

Why do mast steps? I really don't like heights - really don't. But there has been three situations now (about once per year) where we HAVE to go up to the top. The first once, my wife talked the dock neighbor into going up (he's half monkey and loved it). For the second time, I winched my 13 year-old daughter up (very light-easy). And the third time I went up (not so light-easy). Our plans, however, are to move into full-time cruising in the next year. We want to be able to solve the problems up the mast (e.g, replace windex, replace light, retrieve lost halyard, etc.) ourselves quickly and easily. Also think it would be fun to do some photography entering coves/harbors from the mast while underway.

Mast type - we have internal halyards so chafing from the sharp ends of screws "could" be a problem. This seems pretty important to me . . . so much that we'll probably go with rivets.

Rivet type - I've had trouble with dissimilar metals (al and SS) on mast fasteners before . . . so want to avoid that. I know there are gels you can add to help avoid that problem. I've been using Marlube exclusively now for several years. But, seems like I could completely avoid that with staying with 'similar' metals. So aluminum mast, aluminum steps = aluminum rivets too. I have a pneumatic riveter so we'll use that to pull the big size (either 3/16" or 1/4").

Mast step type - the mast steps are a "strap type". We're building these out of a sheet of 1/4" aluminum - cut into 2" strips - then bent into the a sort-of upside down "P" shape. We'll put two holes in the top flange, and two holes in the bottom flange.

~markb

[zboss]

and.... be careful you don't hit any wires when drilling.

[estarzinger]

Your plan sounds fine, but just a suggestion - take 2 hours, go to a local rock climbing store which has a wall, and ask them to demonstrate the big wall rope climbing technique.

Really, if you only need to go up your mast twice a year, just have your wife or someone else strong in the anchorage winch you up. Use a safety. Then you have the rope climbing gear as back up, and it will allow you to get higher over the top of the mast.

Really honestly that is net better than steps. And yea, I don't like heights either.

But if you are set on steps . . . . Spend a little time on getting the step spacing right, both in the "open" mast panels, and around spreaders and other stuff. Spacing suited to you makes a world of difference in actual use.

[Group9]

I think either one will hold it fine. But, I have started using more and more threaded screws that I drill and tap the hole for. It is incredibly easy.

[boden36]

We have made similar steps and have found them very useful for many years.
For convenience, flat bar would be easier than cutting out of plate.
I put a rounded edge on ours using a router bit. Quite a simple operation which makes them much easier on the hands and feet.
Use a stop on your drill bit so it can't penetrate the mast too far.

Regards,
Richard.

[kmcshane]

One suggestion I found useful on my steps:

add a side-by-side step at the top where you will be standing for quite some time repairing gear at the mast head.

Standing like a crane on one leg if you have just the top step is a pain.

I always use a single jumar ascender attached to a climbing harness on the halyard (in addition to the steps). There's no wear on the halyard because I'm not relying on the ascender for anything other than backup security (which is a big deal psychologically, but not a chaff component at all).

IMHO, the wire steps are ideal: less weight and windage than your proposed fabrication, less weight and hassle compared to fold up (although fold up is certainly less windage).
Mine have aluminum rivets with a wide aluminum washer (approx 2 cm) to avoid the chance of pull through.

This system has made the mast my friend.

[bobgarrett]

I'd consider aluminium rivnuts.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by bobgarrett

I'd consider aluminium rivnuts.

As someone who has worked with rivnuts and nutserts for a long time, I would not, reason is just a little corrosion between the aluminum rivnuts and the SS screw and then when you try to remove the screw, the rivnuts will just spin in the mast. Now instead of having to drill out a soft aluminum rivet, you get to drill out a SS screw in an aluminum mast. Plus once removed, you now have a big hole in the mast as a rivnuts requires a much larger hole that just tapping a hole for a screw does.
I think I would use Monel rivets, or just tap the mast and use lots of tefgel when I installed the screws.

[blueazimuth]

My mast steps are similar to Btstzcpa's with teak insteps where extended standing might be necessary.
The steps were pre drilled, 3 up, 3 down using 3/16 Al rivets, a standard size rivet tool and plastic between step and mast. Plastic from a freezer zip lock bag works well.

Al rivets can be easily drilled out and replaced, if necessary, a few years down the road.
Using ss screws is labour intensive to install, and almost always snap off on removal, even if Tuf-gel is used, and are guaranteed to cause unsightly corrosion. Drilling out the ss remnants is extremely difficult, at best.

There are special high load ss fasteners - non tapped - for winches, goose necks etc.

So called "experts" who screw into a mast are guaranteeing future corrosion: with a plethora of proper fastenings on the market, there is no excuse to screw into aluminium masts.

[a64pilot]

To put a plastic insulator between the SS part and the mast, use “dissimilar metals tape” it’s what is used on aircraft for this purpose , or you can use plain old clear packaging tape, you want tape as you can stick it to the step and trim it to fit with an exacto knife and it won’t move during installation.

[bobgarrett]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

As someone who has worked with rivnuts and nutserts for a long time, I would not, reason is just a little corrosion between the aluminum rivnuts and the SS screw and then when you try to remove the screw, the rivnuts will just spin in the mast. Now instead of having to drill out a soft aluminum rivet, you get to drill out a SS screw in an aluminum mast. Plus once removed, you now have a big hole in the mast as a rivnuts requires a much larger hole that just tapping a hole for a screw does.
I think I would use Monel rivets, or just tap the mast and use lots of tefgel when I installed the screws.

Why use steel screws?
Aluminum mast, aluminium rivnuts and aluminium screws. All the same metal. If aluminium is strong enough for the mast continue the metal theme.

[john61ct]

I am in love with rivnuts.

Doubt they come in aluminum, but for SS check out the plusnuts variety.

Don't buy cheap from sources not tied to the real mfg.