When Is the Right Time to Replace the Standing Rig ?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Tynesider

Sorry personally not a fan of using galvanised wire for rigging, better in Stainless steel.

Galvanized is fine, except perhaps that cannot be used on high aspect, high tension rig (read: most today's boats). SS, rod or hi-tech composites, depending on use of the boat and budget.

On lower aspect rigs - gaffers, etc.. galvanized wire works great, but this kind of rig has completely different physics than a tall and fine mast so common today.

b.

[perchance]

As long as you have the mast down it would be wise to check any internal electrical wiring.

[gramos]

I was led to believe by the rigger who rigged my boat when it was new , that Dyform was much stronger and would last longer than standard 1x19 s/s wire .
A transatlantic is looming and its got me wondering ? I take the mast down every 3rd year , this year its down , to check everything and replace wind vanes/ ariels etc .
The comment about stains every 2 ft caught my eye as this is what I have noticed on the diamond stays , ( aft swept twin spreader rig ) .
What does this actually represent ? . it only appears on the diamond stays . Caps and lowers ,inner and forestay are all good but these are 8 mm Dyform as against 6mm for the diamonds . The boat has sailed 6 months a year during its 13 year life , so 6/7 years sailng , but the next year will likely see the same mileage as the past 13 !
I have been following stories on this Dynex Dux rope rigging and if needed would probably use that as the weight saving appeals .

I would greatly appreciate comments , thank you , gramos .

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by gramos

I was led to believe by the rigger who rigged my boat when it was new , that Dyform was much stronger and would last longer than standard 1x19 s/s wire.

Stronger per diameter probably as it has more steel less air than the 19. It will also be heavier then.

Lasts longer? Any data / testing / etc???

Not quite as easy to buy as the 19.

I think Dyform makes a fine replacement in boats when someone happened to under-specify the rigging. Alas, the terminals and fittings will remain 'too wee', so probably not worth it.

Most any damage I see were always terminals or the wire very close to the terminals (probably just inside).

Thus, if insufficient strength of the wire an issue, get ready for a major project and major money involved - the wire, the terminals and the mast hardware/fittings. Maybe cheaper way just buy a properly specified boat.

b.

[bangkaboat]

A trick I learned for checking ss 1x9(works for others) - when no obvious sign of wear - is to take a square of toilet paper & run it along the wire, as if wiping it off. If there are breaks, they will eat a hole in the paper. If you're only "light-duty" sailing, you can get another year out of it, but if you'll be giving the rigging a workout then it should be replaced at the time you notice the holes.

[Bergovoy]

the 'stains'/marks are from corrosion where a broken or weakened wire has allowed moisture into the grouping...

at least that is what i recall reading here in the forum...

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

the 'stains'/marks are from corrosion where a broken or weakened wire has allowed moisture into the grouping...

at least that is what i recall reading here in the forum...

Bergy mate cobber, you've been here long enough to know us boaties are simply not to the trusted; everything we say oughta treated with a good dose of scepticism until after independent verification.

After all, us blighters might just be repeating someone else's unverified nonsense.

PS Thanks for the tip re corrosion...I'll store it

[Bergovoy]

yes, which is why i caveated the info i offered and sourced it to you guys... hehehehe


I was told about the marks by a guy here in so cal, who said he is a rigger, but was acting more like a lame ass broker when i met with him... it was during a discussin here that someone mentioned the wire being loose and allowing moisture in...

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

yes, which is why i caveated the info i offered and sourced it to you guys... hehehehe

Good point cobber, and clever

[MarkJ]

Oh goodie! A thread I can give an answer!!!

I broke my forestay a few weeks ago 300 miles into the Atlantic from the Caribbean.

So I'm qualified to tell you what went wrong!

The strands that were broken were 1cm UP INSIDE the top swage so no inspection could have ever found them. There were 4 strands that had, as some stage broken as the broken surfaces had a slight amount of rust on them (only observable when the forestay was downa dn the rigger showed me with a torch)

My boat is 9 years old and was a Sunsail charter boat for 6 years, then she did a 30,000nm circumnavigation and it broke 300 miles before the end of the circumnavigation.

So if you take a guage of 10 years HARD sailing then the rigging needs to be replaced. It was on my schedule to do this year - but at a moment of my chosing - budget reasons. 15 years for a 'normal' used boat sounds fine.

The cost was $750 for the forestay and $350 each for 2 shroud lowers, and dockage at the riggers and sundires brought the bill to $1766. But I still need the cap shrouds and twin backs done later this year.

So it ain't cheap!
It ain't inspectable!
It ain't gunna give notice its gunna snap!





Hope this helps

[gramos]

Mark , thats a fascinating story , thank you ,you cant predict these things , then !
Glad you didnt lose the rig , did you have an inner forestay/ babystay that held the mast up ? I do and it always give me confidence in the rig staying up , even maybe partly .

I had a chat with Southern rigging in the UK and the suggestion was to check to see if these stains wiped off with a nylon pan scourer , and they did !
the rigger siad they are called "tea stains " , how English ! and they represent nothing if there is no pitting on the strands .Upon inspection with a magnifying glass the wire is perfect so the rigging stays .

[Bergovoy]

isnt there is a wire insde that cant be seen?

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by gramos

Glad you didnt lose the rig , did you have an inner forestay/ babystay that held the mast up ? .

I have an inner forestay (a baby-stay) and I was able to furl the genoa so its halyard held
I ran the topping lift to the bow, but dont have spare halyards.
I kept the mainsail up because the halyard would have been adding compression to the deck stepped mast. The main was double reefed at the time and, of course, I turned dead downwind. Even dead downwind I got one gust at 30knots apparent! and I was still doing 5 knots. Mostly it was about 25 knots... an 'interesting' experience

[SabreKai]

Originally Posted by bangkaboat

A trick I learned for checking ss 1x9(works for others) - when no obvious sign of wear - is to take a square of toilet paper & run it along the wire, as if wiping it off. If there are breaks, they will eat a hole in the paper. If you're only "light-duty" sailing, you can get another year out of it, but if you'll be giving the rigging a workout then it should be replaced at the time you notice the holes.

Be sure to wear heavy leather gloves when doing this. Meat hooks are SOOOOO nasty.

BTW my rigging is 33 years old as far as I know, only been sailed round on Lake Ontario. Complete inspection is on the list for this summer.




Sabre

[Wand]

Originally Posted by SabreKai

BTW my rigging is 33 years old as far as I know, only been sailed round on Lake Ontario. Complete inspection is on the list for this summer.

Interesting. I've always suspected that most cruisers' rigging would last decades but no-one ever leaves it up there long enough to prove it. Racing and high seas sailing apart, the ten year rule is probably just another industry furphy. The rigging on one of my craft is 18 years old and there are no problems as far as I can see. I'd be keen to hear the results of your summer inspection.