Where NOT to use soft shackles?

[MLOI]

Sorry - you guys using anything other than a tied in figure 8 for going up the mast on a halyard are giving me cold shivers. I might trust a bowline in a pinch, as long as the bitter end is also secured, and I have a backup.

Check with any climber - a doubled figure 8 is the standard, for a good reason. Tied into your harness, not just attached to a carabiner.

Mike
(I use soft shackles everywhere else though. Having a couple attached to a backpack is often convenient for carrying extra stuff - like a snowboard)

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

I have to say I'm always happy with the soft shackle on the end of my main halyard as the bosun's chair hoist....

A very poor practice. I was going to post something, and then I read this, several posts down:


" I have had one soft shackle come undone, I had my bosen chair hooked to my halyard with the soft shackle for the mainsail, while trying to get as much height as possible I pulled the soft shackle into the sheeve box at the top of the mast and the way it went in it pulled the knot through the loop, luckily I always have a safety halyard hooked up, I dropped about 6 inches, enough to stop my heart for a second"


Did it make your heart stop? It should have.


Climbing is a little like Russian roulette. If you are going to play for long you need to take ALL of the bullets out of the gun. Climbing is not an appropriate use for many connectors, including snap shackles, D-shackles, quick links, and soft shackles. On the other hand, locking EN-rated carabiners and certain knots are well proven. This is not a place to innovate.

[steve77]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I've had them on jib clews for years; they don't flog off. Really. Stop worrying about it. Tying on a jib is good; I switched for boat-specific reasons that are not relevant to the discussion. What I will never again do is use a metal shackle on a jib; bad for heads and bad for spars.

Personally, I have never had one open or wear out.

That's good to hear. Opening during flogging was one of my biggest concerns. Thanks!

Steve

[arsenelupiga]

managed to sell soft shackle idea to my wife and she uses them in kitchen, hanging, storing and bunch of other ways. Prefers ones made form elastic rope.

Only time my shackle was undone was bridle shackle - attached to anchor chain, in shallow tidal river. Soft shackle undone likely when in contact with ground, up and down the river and left and right and repeat. No dramas, as I simply pull out bridle and reattched, this time with extra bit of secure line.

[Cherp]

I have heard people say they are better in the bedroom than hard handcuffs or chains, but I have no first-hand experience of this and can't imagine what they would be used for in a bedroom.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Seaworthy,

Being dense here. How are soft sha Klee being used? I just tie the sheets with a bowline, with attendant problems for a cutter rig.

I also have been shy about using soft shackles where flogging is experienced.

I suppose a couple of loose stitches may help that situation?

BTW, I also use your tutorial. Thanks.

Hi Hpeer
I have added an eye splice to the end of the headsail sheets. The soft shackle is simply looped between the eye splices and clew. This gives a super smooth junction that does not catch on the staysail furler or the standing rigging. The sheets are also then easy to substitute if needed.

Flogging has never caused the shackle to release and I have never heard this reported elsewhere either.

I would definitely not add any stitches to secure the shackle. It is far too easy to break fibres with the stitching itself and with movement further fibres could break. This would weaken the shackle.

If it helps to give you peace of mind, add a binding made of velcro that simply goes as a loop around the legs.

SWL

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Cherp

I have heard people say they are better in the bedroom than hard handcuffs or chains, but I have no first-hand experience of this and can't imagine what they would be used for in a bedroom.

You need to join a different forum to learn about that

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

I love soft shackles. I make my own (using the excellent Seaworthy Lass tutorial). They've replaced metal ones many places on the boat. I like that I don't have to grab a knife/tool to open them when I want. And that they don't make noise, or hurt when they hit me. But, my oldest is about 4 years old (tack of the jib) and the hardest used (anchor chain to bridle - ~250 days/year) die after about a year or so.

On the other hand, I have metal shackles aboard that I know are 40 years old. And they're 100% recyclable. Even made of metals of high enough quality that they could be sold for scrap (if I could get enough). And still as strong as the day they were new. If I don't overstress them they could probably be used by my grandchildren.

So, the questions I have, how long do soft shackles really last; and where do all the old, plastic soft shackles end up?

As I sail around in my plastic boat, driven by my plastic sails, controlled by my plastic lines, and look at the giant piles of plastic litter on the windward side of every atoll I visit I start to wonder about adding even more disposable plastic to my account. They're great tools and I love them but I've started to wonder about their total cost.

Since I make most of mine out of line I've stripped the cover off after diving for it in the dumpster, or from odds and ends cut off from other projects, I see it as re-purposing, and getting a few more years out of something that was headed to the landfill anyway. I have too many SS shackles that I no longer trust because of crevice corrosion; too many galvi's that are balls of rust. I've also scrapped a lot of shackles because of wear on the pin and burrs elsewhere.
But regarding environmental impact, it would be interesting to find out whether the process for extracting from the earth and manufacturing a stainless shackle is more damaging than to manufacture plastic rope. Someone could make a clever graph beginning with mining/oil exploration all the way through to the consumer.

[rgleason]

I use tylaska at the jib clew.

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Not where unimpeachable reliability is required. For example, places you would either not use a pin shackle, or you would mouse it:

• Anchor shackle
• Attachment of bosuns chair or harness
• Standing rigging

Against heavily burred steel or sharp edges. For example, where SS shackles have been used, without deburring.


Places were restricting rotation is desirable. Some tackles.


---


But mostly I like them.

I wouldn’t hold my chair with a steel shackle either.
Also there are rope options for standing rigging.

[Magiccruising]

Here are my soft shackle uses:
- boom preventer
- boom topping lift

[Shoalcove]

Originally Posted by MLOI

Sorry - you guys using anything other than a tied in figure 8 for going up the mast on a halyard are giving me cold shivers. I might trust a bowline in a pinch, as long as the bitter end is also secured, and I have a backup.

Check with any climber - a doubled figure 8 is the standard, for a good reason. Tied into your harness, not just attached to a carabiner.

Mike
(I use soft shackles everywhere else though. Having a couple attached to a backpack is often convenient for carrying extra stuff - like a snowboard)

Thanks for the comments on the doubled figure 8 knot! I wasn’t familiar with it and have just spent some time tying it. It looks like a very useful knot!

[p435]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

I love soft shackles. I make my own....


..... I start to wonder about adding even more disposable plastic to my account. They're great tools and I love them but I've started to wonder about their total cost.

Thanks for your thoughts! And thanks for trying to reduce plastic as much as possible. I do the same on my plastic boat, with plastic sails...


For interested ones, please have a look at https://www.theoceancleanup.com/
Millions have been and will be needed to clean up the man made mess.

[Buzzman]

Regarding the plastics issue - 30 years ago one of Australia's most well-known sailors, Ian Kiernan, returned from a trip across the Pacific and determined to "do something" about plastics ending up in our waterways.

He founded 'Clean Up Australia' as an annual clean up the beaches and waterways day. 40,000 people signed up for the first one.

Now, 'Clean Up the World' is in 80 countries and sees volunteer numbers in excess of 40 million people.

Sadly, Ian passed away on October 16th, but his work continues!

https://www.australianoftheyear.org....t/ian-kiernan/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Kiernan

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Not where unimpeachable reliability is required. For example, places you would either not use a pin shackle, or you would mouse it:

• Anchor shackle
• Attachment of bosuns chair or harness
• Standing rigging

Against heavily burred steel or sharp edges. For example, where SS shackles have been used, without deburring.
Places were restricting rotation is desirable. Some tackles.
But mostly I like them.

And never to secure ends of safety lines (Jack lines, life lines, whatever).