Where NOT to use soft shackles?

[Captain Claudia]

Where can I find the tutorial by seaworthy lass?

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Captain Claudia

Where can I find the tutorial by seaworthy lass?

The instructions for a “high strength” soft shackle (230% of line strength if well made) using Brion Toss’s button stopper are here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ot-155591.html

If you are just starting out, tying a diamond knot stopper is easier. This is used for most of the commercial soft shackles. Strength is around 170% line strength. Again care needs to be taken with construction to achieve this.

Instructions for the diamond stopper are here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ot-187913.html
Just follow the steps for the high strength version, but tie a diamond knot stopper instead of the button.

Regardless of what style stopper you use, rather than burying one leg in the other in the central portion of the soft shackle, I would leave the two legs loose, or just bury a very small portion. It is difficult to get good load distribution otherwise, weakening the design.

SWL

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The instructions for a “high strength” soft shackle (230% of line strength if well made) using Brion Toss’s button stopper are here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ot-155591.html

If you are just starting out, tying a diamond knot stopper is easier. This is used for most of the commercial soft shackles. Strength is around 170% line strength. Again care needs to be taken with construction to achieve this.

Instructions for the diamond stopper are here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ot-187913.html
Just follow the steps for the high strength version, but tie a diamond knot stopper instead of the button.

Regardless of what style stopper you use, rather than burying one leg in the other in the central portion of the soft shackle, I would leave the two legs loose, or just bury a very small portion. It is difficult to get good load distribution otherwise, weakening the design.

SWL

Hi SWL, thanks so much for your instructions. I’ve followed your two part High Strength Soft Shackles Using The Button Stopper Knot steps. Here’s what it looks like made from a generic 8mm UHMWPE line - my first soft shackle ever! I haven’t yet set it, that’s my next step.



Regarding burying the ends, your instructions say that we need minimum 30x line diameter for the bury. Makes sense and I will be doing that.

But in your quote here you say to not bury the tails. Has that advice been superseded?

I’m going to use this soft shackle to connect our bridle to our 12mm chain. I’m thrilled to get rid of the big Kong chain shackle that keeps getting hung up in our bow roller.

BTW, if anyone else is tying a button knot for the first time, I strongly recommend getting two smaller lines and practicing until it becomes clear. It took me a couple of hours and about twenty repeats before the button knot finally made sense. Only then move on to UHMWPE. I marked one tail with black along its entire knot length to keep track of it.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Hi SWL, thanks so much for your instructions. I’ve followed your two part High Strength Soft Shackles Using The Button Stopper Knot steps. Here’s what it looks like made from a generic 8mm UHMWPE line - my first soft shackle ever! I haven’t yet set it, that’s my next step.

Attachment 191739

Regarding burying the ends, your instructions say that we need minimum 30x line diameter for the bury. Makes sense and I will be doing that.

But in your quote here you say to not bury the tails. Has that advice been superseded?

I’m going to use this soft shackle to connect our bridle to our 12mm chain. I’m thrilled to get rid of the big Kong chain shackle that keeps getting hung up in our bow roller.

BTW, if anyone else is tying a button knot for the first time, I strongly recommend getting two smaller lines and practicing until it becomes clear. It took me a couple of hours and about twenty repeats before the button knot finally made sense. Only then move on to UHMWPE. I marked one tail with black along its entire knot length to keep track of it.

Hi Fxy
Congratulations! That looks excellent.

In the quote I suggested not burying the legs one inside the other (ie the bit between the noose and the stopper), regardless of what type of stopper you use. I think is difficult to get the load distribution right between the two legs if you do so and the noose size may suffer and the overall strength may weaken as a result.

By the way, the buried legs version is referred to as a Colligomarine style.
The two loose legs version is called a Kohlhoff style.

The tails certainly need to be buried with a button stopper. Do this after pretensioning the stopper on a winch, as the stopper will tend to slide a little with this treatment. Then bury the tails as close to the base of the stopper as possible and taper the ends.

I will keep an eye on this thread, so just holler if you have any other queries.

SWL

[TheOffice]

I buy soft shackles from Amazon. They have a chafe sleeve on them. I've used them for jib sheets and tacks for thousands of miles without any sign of failure. I now whip one onto the tack of each jib so when we change headsails no one has to worry about losing one. I also buy Dynemma straps from REI or climbing shops. 4,000 breaking strength, cheap and come in various lenghts and colors.

[fxykty]

Here’s the completed soft shackle, in 8mm UHMWPE. The buries are a bit short (20x diameter) but the shackle is way over strength as it’s going to be used to connect the thimble eye in the middle of our anchoring bridle to the 12mm chain. The 8mm just feeds through the links.





I made two - the first took hours and had to be redone multiple times, plus the time taken to learn the button knot. The second one took about 10 minutes. Definitely makes sense to learn to make these yourself.

Any thoughts on chafing, both for the portion within the link and when the whole thing rests on the bottom (yes, I know, shorten the bridle so it can’t, but that’s not always anticipated)?

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Here’s the completed soft shackle, in 8mm UHMWPE. The buries are a bit short (20x diameter) but the shackle is way over strength as it’s going to be used to connect the thimble eye in the middle of our anchoring bridle to the 12mm chain. The 8mm just feeds through the links.

Congratulations! That looks beautiful.
By the way, the strength with amount of bury is not linear. I think 30 x was a minimum. Without this, the strength is apparently close to that of a soft shackle made with a diamond knot. The button stopper is still beneficial in this application, as with a smooth top to the stopper, the noose does not snag and securing it is quite a bit easier.

Just one other comment. We have 12 mm chain also and have found that when using an 8 mm soft shackle, although the noose goes through the links, the buried portion is too thick to do so. I tend to make these shackles extra long so that the thick portion does not even need to bend around the snubber.

Originally Posted by fxykty

Any thoughts on chafing, both for the portion within the link and when the whole thing rests on the bottom (yes, I know, shorten the bridle so it can’t, but that’s not always anticipated)?

I replace the soft shackle between our snubber and chain yearly. It starts to look slightly furry at this stage, but not dreadful. We have never had one fail (I have lost track of the total number of years of use, but probably about six?), but we also haven’t pushed any much past a year of use. Given the tough workout ours get, chafe is not a big issue where is passes through the chain.

I have photographed our year old Dyneema one to show the wear. This has seen us through five named storms at anchor this past autumn and winter in NW Scotland. This connects to an Acera strop that goes over the bow and attaches to the snubber that runs along the length of the deck. The strop and soft shackle will be replaced shortly. From the photo you can see that I “captured” the soft shackle so there was no need to secure it when not in use. No more lost ones .

I have no suggestions regarding the end of the bridle lying on the bottom and the connection possibly chafing. With or without the soft shackle that may be an issue, particularly if the limp end snags on something sharp on the bottom and then the wind picks up.

SWL

[fxykty]

Thanks very much SWL. Making them extra long so the thicker buried legs don’t have to bend makes sense - on my short ones the thicker legs will have to, but at least they have a thimble that makes the eye on 22mm line to go around, so plenty of thickness and not a sharp bend.

I like your idea of capturing the soft shackle - I will do that on my next, much longer soft shackle. I used 1500mm of 8mm for the short ones I made, so for an extra long shackle like yours how much line did you use? I’m thinking 2500mm should do it.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Thanks very much SWL. Making them extra long so the thicker buried legs don’t have to bend makes sense - on my short ones the thicker legs will have to, but at least they have a thimble that makes the eye on 22mm line to go around, so plenty of thickness and not a sharp bend.

I like your idea of capturing the soft shackle - I will do that on my next, much longer soft shackle. I used 1500mm of 8mm for the short ones I made, so for an extra long shackle like yours how much line did you use? I’m thinking 2500mm should do it.

That soft shackle of mine was made two years ago while waiting for the boat to be built. I didn’t record how much line I used (I am trying to keep better records now so I can reproduce them easily), but the finished length from the end of the noose to the base of the stopper when it is open is 480 mm.
From memory I bought 5 m and made two and had a bit left.

SWL