Which fold-up mast steps?

[s/v Jedi]

I am considering steps at the masthead to be able to stand up there while working on halyards, navigation lights, antennas etc.

On Defender I see aluminum and nylon versions... my first thought was aluminum but seeing nylon is more expensive and some people choosing those, what are the considerations for choosing one or the other?

Also, drill & tap with machine screws or blind rivets?

Edit: another question: how far below the masthead to mount these?

[Joh.Ghurt]

Same plan here. I'll put them so that I can easily work on the installations on top of the mast. This would mean when standing my armpits are in line with the top. This also allows me to add a safety ring on the mast-top where I can secure myself a little against motions with a chest-line.

And the ring might also be used to install a doodad to keep the cormorants and seagulls away from the mast and use the deck a their toilet. But this is a different story.

[Tomodore]

Have the aluminum folding steps with rivets. Owned the boat 21 years and they were on when we bought her. No problems so far.

[JPA Cate]

How to place them? Depends on how tall you are, and how long your legs are. We had them placed, when the mast was out. Jim told the rigger he wanted to be able to push down hard on the top of the crane, and it has wound up around mid-chest. He said it would be nice to be up a little more, but then they would be harder to get onto.

Ann

[Benz]

Higher is better, so you can look down at the masthead while you fiddle with antennas and such. If you clip in short (like with one carabiner from your harness to something at the masthead itself) you can lean back on that and stand comfortably, even if a little above it.
I like the marelon steps better than aluminum, just 'cause of weight and corrosion, but that's unlikely to be an issue so high up.
Definitely drill and tap. Then use blue loctite.

[Pauls]

Most nylons are not UV resistant. As a matter of fact, no plastic is UV proof, some are just UV resistant. For standing on at the masthead, I'd use aluminum. A failure might be unpleasant.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

...

Also, drill & tap with machine screws or blind rivets?

Edit: another question: how far below the masthead to mount these?

I used drill and tap and even with epoxy they eventually came loose, perhaps due to thin wall and vibration and I eventually needed to rivet them. I would go with monel rivets.

Just be thoughtful of how high you place the steps. The masthead should be at the same level of your shoulders otherwise you may not be able to stand up right and secure yourself due to the acute angle of the wires around the masthead.

[Cpt Mark]

The aluminum ones are pot metal. At least the ones I had. I discovered this when I was done working on the top. I positioned 2 steps at about waist high to easily work on anything on the top of the mast. Started down the mast and the 1st one I stepped on snapped. Climbing by myself, using ascenders. Took me quite a while to figure out how to get back down. These were less than 1 year old. I would never use those again.

I'm thinking of the nylon ones for the very top but not the folding ones. Just a pair to stand on in the rare times I need to.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I am considering steps at the masthead to be able to stand up there while working on halyards, navigation lights, antennas etc.

On Defender I see aluminum and nylon versions... my first thought was aluminum but seeing nylon is more expensive and some people choosing those, what are the considerations for choosing one or the other?

Also, drill & tap with machine screws or blind rivets?

Edit: another question: how far below the masthead to mount these?

I think I'd opt for a couple of well placed stirrups at the top of the mast and plan to hoist up in the traditional manner. The nylon steps may have something to do with less noise.

[Pauls]

Threaded fasteners require enough wall thickness in the mast for an absolute minimum of 3 threads, 4 is much better. This is using the coarse thread type for the fastener size you will be using. With enough wall thickness threads are the best fastener. With thinner walls they are not viable.

Rivets are used for thinner all sections. Think aircraft construction, thin aluminum riveted. Rivets come in various quality levels. Do NOT use the typical, available everywhere pop rivets. You want structural grade rivets. A well known manufacturer is Cherry. These are sold by McMaster Carr, described as high strength aluminum rivets. Do not even consider using monel, it will be a galvanic disaster. The McMaster high strength aluminum rivets are made from 5052 and have an aluminum shank as well. They are rated for both tensile and shear strength.

[Marathon1150]

We have had nylon steps on the mast for about 15 years and 10 of those years were in Mexico where sun and UV are intense for significant portions of the year. No failures so far. We chose nylon over cast metal because the latter can rattle and make a lot of noise.

I should note that at least one person that has worked on the boat several times (a radio guy doing some antenna and cabling work) chooses to use his own ascenders rather than the steps. The riggers that installed the steps were happy to use them, even two years after initial installation. But the point made earlier in the thread regarding UV degradation of nylon is important.

The steps were installed using threaded holes and SS screws coated in Lanacote.

I use a climbing harness and have someone belay me from below even when using the steps. In addition to a step breaking, it wouldn't be hard to slip off a step.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

The aluminum ones are pot metal. At least the ones I had. I discovered this when I was done working on the top. I positioned 2 steps at about waist high to easily work on anything on the top of the mast. Started down the mast and the 1st one I stepped on snapped. Climbing by myself, using ascenders. Took me quite a while to figure out how to get back down. These were less than 1 year old. I would never use those again.

I'm thinking of the nylon ones for the very top but not the folding ones. Just a pair to stand on in the rare times I need to.

Not sure who even thinks of using pot metal for mast steps, please provide links to support that claim...

SeaDog uses 356-T6 grade aluminum which is as good as it comes.
https://sea-dog.com/groups/3006-folding-step

[Dougtiff]

As a Rigger, i have used both Alloy and Nylon folding steps, drilled and tapped, with thread Lock 4 feet seems to work well height wise, i tie myself in tight once in position, like a telephone pole line man would, with the safety strap that is attached to the "Brian Toss harness", don't use a Bosun chair, as i feel it's dangerous, when transitioning from hanging to standing, being older, i screwed up once when pulling myself up to a standing position, and slightly tore my Rotator Cuff, so be careful.

[EarlWer]

CapeHorn.com has removeable mast steps. 3 holes per step.
Removable Mast Steps – CapHorn – Régulateur d’allure intégré

Looks interesting.

[Joh.Ghurt]

I have similar mast-steps as the one linked from cape-horn up to the first spreaders and I'm not a big fan. They have a magic attraction to flopping halyards. In the lower part of the mast this can be usually solved by giving the halyard a shake, but near the top I think you'd have to climb up to get the halyard free. For the top I'd prefer a flip-out one with low profile when stored.