Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Don't be fooled by the Zeppelin bend. I know these flavor of knots and the only one out of the 4 siblings any good is the Alpine Butterfly:

Zeppelin
Hunter
Ashley
Alpine Butterfly

Each of these uses similar paired loops depending on direction and blight.

The Alpine is the only one that can be used as a loop, bend, or hitch, and ALSO be incredibly easy to tie. So look that up, see the numerous videos and diagrams and throw away all the other obscure knots you may know. Join the ABA (Alpine Butterfly Association) where you can enjoy various gatherings around the world that celebrate the enormous impact this knot has had on the nautical and climbing community.

The only one that is "any good"?
You have been falsely bewitched by the Alpine Butterfly bend LOL.

I, too, had been lulled by the multiple uses of the ABB (using it up until recently), but are they really of great value? When used as a midline or end line loop where the load is on the loop and one standing end, it jams to the point of needing to be cut off (the pressure is put on one of the overhands and it latches on as if it is welded). I will hunt up a recent photo. It is only as a bend that it can be untied.

We already have a brilliant end/midline knot - the bowline, so the AB's uses here are limited. It is the best bend we need, not the most versatile one.

In terms of security, the best of the 4 bends you list is the Zeppelin.

"Ease of tying" is not really an issue. It takes me 5-6 seconds to tie after a couple of evenings of practice while watching movies.

The clincher for me is that the Zeppelin has the huge advantage that you are able to grip a fixed object for security (with either or both hands) while tying it. You have at least 3 fingers and the palm of both hands free. The ABB leaves one hand totally incapacitated.

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Ah, a fly fisherman as well. I gave up after a while as I felt it was beneath me pitting wits against a trout . Loved wading the rivers still though and continued to do so with a backpack filled with picnic lunch, current book and in Australia a snake bite kit.



Stairway to Heaven is a classic .

I tried and gave up trout fishing entirely. I only hunt or fish for food, and I detest fresh water fish. I was thinking more yellowfin tuna and wahoo.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Salty, here is the Alpine Butterfly as an end loop under load recently. It starts to look pretty ugly when pressure is applied.

[Seaworthy Lass]

And here is my attempt to untie it. One side (the unloaded one) came undone nice and easily. On the other side the overhand was not possible to undo. It even defeated my Marlin spike attempt.

Usually I am not one to swear, but a few words were uttered under my breath. I had to cut the loop off.

As a bend, I would put it in second place compared to the Zeppelin, but it is not a bad alternative. As an end or midline loop (where the load is put on the loop and one standing end) I am never using it again.

[Wotname]

Salty v Lassie...
This is gonna be good

Methinks I'l back the Lassie 'cause she can steer a dam fine good course when the tide is against her...

Mind you ropes and such are in a monkey's DNA... and here we have a salty one at that.


Can't fence sit so I'll go with the nicer avatar...














That's SWL if there is any doubt

[chris in SG]

Apologies for thread drift but since the knot experts are gathered here..

Can anyone advise if this hitch has a name and why it isn't apparently widely used? I find it the neatest way of attaching a snap-shackle to a halyard if you don't have the time or skill to eye-splice braided line. Hopefully I'm attaching photos of both sides of the same knot.

I like the way it looks and it has never failed me. A buntline hitch is as simple but does not look as tidy..

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by chris in SG

Apologies for thread drift but since the knot experts are gathered here..

Can anyone advise if this hitch has a name and why it isn't apparently widely used? I find it the neatest way of attaching a snap-shackle to a halyard if you don't have the time or skill to eye-splice braided line. Hopefully I'm attaching photos of both sides of the same knot.

I like the way it looks and it has never failed me. A buntline hitch is as simple but does not look as tidy..

I was introduced to that hitch whilst installing some Selden equipment. They show it in various applications in their user manuals. We too use it for halyard shackles, etc. Works well, but will jam after heavy loading and be difficult/impossible to untie.

Never heard a proper name for the hitch, so we call it the Selden hitch!

Jim

[Seaworthy Lass]

I've finally had a chance to take some photos that may help those of you without enough beer, who are still struggling a little:

This is how my hands grip the line when tying the Zeppelin in mid air (ie the usual way):

Form the 69 (with the loop of the 9 going Up and Under, and the loop of the 6 going the opposite way (down and over) and grip the junction between the thumb and two forefingers of each hand (one forefinger is enough in thinner line):

[Seaworthy Lass]

Place the 6 over the 9 (forming 69 in sequence) and regrip with your right thumb:

[Seaworthy Lass]

Your left hand is now free to take the tail of the 6 away from you then through the hole towards you:

[Seaworthy Lass]

Without changing grip with your right hand, use your left hand to take the tail of the 9 towards you then through the hole away from you (as you get more comfortable with tying this bend, you will find yourself using your free fingers of your right hand to help get the tails though the hole and this speeds up the process):

[Seaworthy Lass]

If you have left the tails long enough you can then just yank on the standing ends. A light tug on the tails will help dress it, but in supple line or an emergency it is not vital.

Just play with the knot for a few evenings while watching TV and you will be surprised how quick and easy it gets. You will need to repeat this regularly with any knot until it is ingrained in "muscle memory", where you no longer need to think of any numbers or which way the tails go.

At the same time run through your sequence of 6-8 "vital" sailing knots. Learn to tie the bowline from all 4 directions and even one handed. Do it while looking at the TV, so you are essentially tying the knots by feel.

Try timing yourself. It is fun to see the rapid improvement when you put yourself under time pressure (5 seconds is my best for the Zeppelin at the moment).

[JimC]

Since learning to tie the knot I've been playing around with it and have discovered that it will hold securely even without being drawn up tight. Presumably this would have been a useful characteristic to the ground crews who wouldn't have had much time to make fast their lines.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I was introduced to that hitch whilst installing some Selden equipment. They show it in various applications in their user manuals. We too use it for halyard shackles, etc. Works well, but will jam after heavy loading and be difficult/impossible to untie.

Never heard a proper name for the hitch, so we call it the Selden hitch!

Jim

Hi Jim and Chris

In the Selden Rigging Info booklet, they call it a Halyard Hitch (there's a surprise).
And you are right about the jamming. I only use it on the outhaul to the clew of the main. Took the main of the other day and had to cut the hitch.

SWL, thanks for the pictures on your new favourite bend, good stuff, one to pass on to my bosun.

[Thomashay]

Great knot and pictures! So Lass, what are your "6-8 'vital' sailing knots"?