Boat Bikes II

[ranger58sb]

What bikes -- with carbon frame, belt drive, internal hub (and not e-bikes) -- are out there in the marketplace?

Think I remember Trek used to make one, maybe wasn't a folder...

-Chris

[fivecapes]

What made you decide against the Atto?

[a64pilot]

I would not want a carbon frame, the reason is that carbon is fragile, easily damaged.
My ideal would be Ti, cause nothing rides better than Ti, but Ti bikes are I believe a thing of the past, with carbon you can get just as light or lighter, and are way, way cheaper to produce, especially volume production, a Ti bike is made individually by hand, and that’s why they are so expensive, it’s not the materiel. Carbon can be popped out of molds like popcorn.
Aluminum is somewhat lightweight but to get lightweight you need large thin tubes, that are fragile and of course big, think old Cannondale, and aluminum rides like crap, very harsh. I used to have a Cannondale.

Takes us back to good old fashioned Columbus tubing, if tig welded and not brazed with lugs it’s actually pretty darn light, especially if rifled, and can easily be sealed so internal rust doesn’t happen. Steel is still actually a very good material for bike frames, especially folders.
There are two things about a bike Friday, weight is one and that to me is a big deal, hauling my heavy Dahon Mariner up an 8’ ladder at a dinghy dock is a huge pain, smaller and lighter would be real nice.
So much of a pain, that this year they are in storage, but a lot of that is because she doesn’t like to ride.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

What bikes -- with carbon frame, belt drive, internal hub (and not e-bikes) -- are out there in the marketplace?

Think I remember Trek used to make one, maybe wasn't a folder...

-Chris

Never seen a folder like that.


The Bike Friday Pakit can be ordered with the 8 speed Shimano Alfina hub and Gates carbon belt drive.


The belt drive is the business for a boat bike -- imagine how nice that would be. But the belt drive alone adds nearly $800 (!) to the price of the Pakit compared to just the 8 speed hub, for total of $2700 with racks and fenders and backpack (A64 is right - my earlier figure was wrong, which was my guess POST duty, shipping, VAT).



That's the U.S. price with no shipping, customs duty, or VAT. You can fully customize the bike; the standard parts (wheels, hubs, BB, headset, etc.) are fairly mediocre, so the price goes up fast if you adjust the spec.



My Jetstream, with all absolutely first class components, was a bargain compared to this! I think I paid not much more than €2500 for it -- the suspension alone would have cost that much had I bought it separately. I guess it was a loss-leader prestige thing for Dahon.

[Pelagic]

As it so happens Follow the boat just did a bit on boat bikes.
My takeaway in that is to get a bike where parts are universally available

https://youtu.be/0ypFvaarNhA

[a64pilot]

You seem to like the Jetstream, why change? BB’s are dead easy to change, I’d go with a cartridge one myself, most factory bikes have cheap BB’s it’s something that they can save money on and the average buyer never knows. A good one will probably last forever as I assume you don’t do many Centuries every week

If I could get her to ride, and that’s not going to happen, I’d get us probably single speed Pakits, or maybe three speed if that’s a thing, the hubs are stupid heavy.
I still have her road and mountain bike somewhere and the Ran’s Screamer recumbent tandem in storage, the Rans was a very fast thing if you had a good stoker, I had Magura hydraulic brakes, independent pedaling and a coaster brake, cause going down hill a recumbent tandem can build an amazing amount of speed.

The independent pedaling is something that looks weird at first, seeing only one pedaling on a tandem look strange.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You seem to like the Jetstream, why change? . . .

Well, as I wrote -- it is just too bulky to store easily in the laz (or anywhere else), it doesn't fold that well, and it is hard to store it on the boat without bending derailleur or chainwheel. I want something which folds up smaller and is easier to handle, on the boat and in the dinghy.


I love the Jetstream and can easily do a century on it, and have enjoyed riding it in all kinds of different places (I even had it with me in Greenland but didn't take it ashore there), but I'm really sick of handling and storing it. I've converted it to my city apartment bike, where it truly shines.

[Tayana42]

Since a64 brought up the Rans here is a picture of my favorite road bike. It is an old Rans Stratus recumbent. I just love it. Over 90” long and not a folder so in order to use it as a boat bike I’m going to need a much bigger boat. [ATTACH]

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, as I wrote -- it is just too bulky to store easily in the laz (or anywhere else), it doesn't fold that well, and it is hard to store it on the boat without bending derailleur or chainwheel. I want something which folds up smaller and is easier to handle, on the boat and in the dinghy.


I love the Jetstream and can easily do a century on it, and have enjoyed riding it in all kinds of different places (I even had it with me in Greenland but didn't take it ashore there), but I'm really sick of handling and storing it. I've converted it to my city apartment bike, where it truly shines.

Then you want the smallest, lightest “real” bicycle there is, I say real as there are tiny little things out there that use I believe roller blade wheels or similar, and they aren’t suitable.
Now I have not ridden or even seen a Pakit, but it doesn’t seem to be difficult to fold, no tools required, but the backpack seems large for a backpack.
However the 8sp hub seems to weigh 1.7 kg all by itself, that’s almost 4 lbs, does it really need to be that heavy?
May sound stupid but a single speed belt drive and I’d even want a coaster brake as no brake cable to rust internally. Lots lighter, simpler and I’d miss gears, maybe depending on terrain, but as my trips are actually short distance I think it would be fine.
Then cob up a folding luggage carrier like this as a trailer to haul Jerry jugs or groceries.

https://www.amazon.com/Magna-Persona...s%2C221&sr=8-3
I have one in storage that I got to haul dive tanks cave diving, it was a bust cause the wheels didn’t work at all loaded down in sand

But anyway, in my opinion chains are a bust, derailleurs are a bust for a boat bike, there is no real honest SS chain or I can’t find one if there is, and deraiullers are too fragile. Then of course there are all the cables ,four in total that aren’t in my opinion absolutely necessary.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

Since a64 brought up the Rans here is a picture of my favorite road bike. It is an old Rans Stratus recumbent. I just love it. Over 90” long and not a folder so in order to use it as a boat bike I’m going to need a much bigger boat. [ATTACH]

Rans got it backwards, everyone knows the first airplane was built by bicycle makers, Rans is an aircraft company that manufacturers bicycles, so I guess it finally came full circle?

You want an excellent as in new condition Screamer? It has all the options like independant pedaling and I could make someone a heck of a deal.

[Tayana42]

Thanks, but my wife won’t do a tandem. She insists on peddling her own bike and knowing she is carrying her own workload. Love my Rans. Wright brothers to Aircraft builders full circle. Creative engineering.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

. . . But anyway, in my opinion chains are a bust, derailleurs are a bust for a boat bike, there is no real honest SS chain or I can’t find one if there is, and deraiullers are too fragile. Then of course there are all the cables ,four in total that aren’t in my opinion absolutely necessary.

The dream bike which does all of that (except cables) and still has 14 gears actually exists -- order the Pakit or a Brompton with a Rohloff hub (for the Brommie it's a custom job).


A Rohloff on a 16" wheel bike is total overkill I guess. You can order the Pakit as single speed with the Gates belt drive -- weighs 21 pounds! But single speed is not for me.


Getting rid of the derailleur is a deal breaker for me. Getting rid of the chain would be nice. Not spending $4000 after customs and VAT is also a priority. The usual dilemma . . .

[a64pilot]

Don’t you come back to the US at times?

[a64pilot]

Brompton is only one size frame, and only one frame choice if I’m not mistaken?

[mlydon]

Guys - those numbers you're throwing around are INSANE! There's got to be a better way than throwing $2-4K down on a single bicycle.

I have a couple of old Dahon Mariners that I think I paid a grand total of $300 for used, that work just fine.

Is one of these works of art you're talking about really worth that kind of money?

Matt