Boat Bikes II

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I suppose if one had time and attention for it, you would want to replace all those things with stainless hardware, before you first bring a bike on board.

I thought about that... many years after purchase, of course.

Fasteners might be replaceable with stainless steel from local acquisition. The hinge parts and some of the others, maybe not so much?

I tried to interest the Downtube guy in building a marine version; no traction.

-Chris

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I thought about that... many years after purchase, of course.

Fasteners might be replaceable with stainless steel from local acquisition. The hinge parts and some of the others, maybe not so much?

I tried to interest the Downtube guy in building a marine version; no traction.

-Chris

Maybe BF would do a Marine Pakit. With their volumes that could be a quite good niche for them.


Or maybe one of the many shops that customize Brommies.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I thought about that... many years after purchase, of course.

Fasteners might be replaceable with stainless steel from local acquisition. The hinge parts and some of the others, maybe not so much?

I tried to interest the Downtube guy in building a marine version; no traction.
-Chris

The marine market might be too small for a bike manufacturer, relatively-speaking... but it could make for a nice little aftermarket business: :marinizing" parts kits for popular folding bikes, or even a rebuild service...?

Thought exercise: if you wanted a Brompton for your boat, how much extra would you pay to have the frame sprayed inside with rust inhibitor, steel hardware replaced with SS hardware, components upgraded where reasonable, better bike bag, etc?

Finally, since this thread has mainly dealt with expensive bikes... what is the lifespan of a full-time cruiser's folding bicycle? What is most likely to "end" their life: corrosion? frame failure? theft? accidental damage?

[roverhi]

The steel frame on my BikeFriday NWT hasn't been a problem. It spent about 2 years stored nightly on the deck in the marina. Spent passages stored in its suitcase in the V berth. Have limited experience transporting the bike in the dinghy where it had a more intimate exposure to salt water. Still it's never been submerged in saltwater and has been rinsed off with freshwater regularly. Of course steel boats and bikes rust out from the inside so any rust prevention is going to require squirting rust inhibitor inside the tubing.

The el cheapo folding bike I picked up and transported on the deck between SF and Monterey bled rust like crazy during and after that passage. Still, it wasn't the frame, bottom bracket, or wheel bearings that were problems but the cables, shifters, and brakes that got sticky or froze up. Bike hardware is designed to be light but not necessarily element friendly. There are corrosion resistant aluminum alloys but doesn't appear to be what bike hardware is made from. Long term exposure and/or soaking in salt water won't be good for steel bearings either and those are found throughout the cost/quality range.

As far as frame longevity, would expect a cheap steel bike to actually last longer than a high end bike in normal use. Cheap bikes are built strong, less light weight alloys and mostly steel which should translate into a long life. Expensive bikes are built light and lowest resistance rotating parts which doesn't necessarily translate into long life. If we are talking frame material in worst case conditions fat walled mild steel tubing should hold up reasonably well. Thin wall, double butted, chrome moly steel won't do nearly as well. Depending on the alloy and tubing wall thickness, aluminum should do okay but there are some aluminum alloys that are quite corrosion susceptible. Carbon fiber shouldn't have corrosion issues in itself but can can be fragile to physical abuse. Then there is the best material, titanium, for strength and corrosion resistance but is a long way from cheap.

Even though the Bike Friday wasn't cheap but is/was worth every penny. Hated every minute when I had to ride that cheap folder. Riding position was cramped, controls awkward to use and it was heavy.

[WTRacer]

Some other alternatives for you to consider, including a pricey left field choice.


https://www.tyrellbike.de/en/


This one isn't a folder but is interesting for sure M1 | Castro Bikes


Ugly but potentially suited https://www.birdybicycle.com/collect...dy-bike-models


The daddy, but more time consuming reducing to the compact size you seem to need/want. MOULTON Bicycle Company £1250 to (gulp) £16950. Astonishing pieces of kit though.


Within these there are plenty of frame material choices, including Stainless steel. Also a few drivetrain choices, with/without derailleurs, Rohloff hubs etc.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by roverhi

...it wasn't the frame, bottom bracket, or wheel bearings that were problems but the cables, shifters, and brakes that got sticky or froze up. Bike hardware is designed to be light but not necessarily element friendly.

When overhauling a bike, I will often slide a cable core out of the sheath, wipe it down, and grease or oil it over its full length before sliding it back in. It's also usually not that difficult to disassemble brakes and derailleurs to clean and regrease.

I "soaked" the inexpensive aluminum folding bike I bought last year riding through a flooded path, so I repacked the wheel bearings... and the grease used by the factory was not so great. I used good synthetic bike grease on the bearings, and it made a big difference.

So, for a new cheap to middling bike, it might be wise to re-lubricate everything right away, including cables and brakes, for better performance and longer life.

[WTRacer]

I don't recall if electric assistance was ruled out but if not another option might be


https://gocycle.com/models/gocycle-gs/

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by WTRacer

Some other alternatives for you to consider, including a pricey left field choice.


https://www.tyrellbike.de/en/


This one isn't a folder but is interesting for sure M1 | Castro Bikes


Ugly but potentially suited https://www.birdybicycle.com/collect...dy-bike-models


The daddy, but more time consuming reducing to the compact size you seem to need/want. MOULTON Bicycle Company £1250 to (gulp) £16950. Astonishing pieces of kit though.


Within these there are plenty of frame material choices, including Stainless steel. Also a few drivetrain choices, with/without derailleurs, Rohloff hubs etc.

The Tyrell is nice, and remarkably light, but otherwise has all the disadvantages (size, derailleur) of my Jetstream without the advantage of having a suspension.



I like Birdies, actually, but they are bulkier than my Jetstream and no lighter.


And I LOVE Moultons, and have since the 70's, but there is no way to get that into a reasonable package without major disassembly.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by WTRacer

I don't recall if electric assistance was ruled out but if not another option might be


https://gocycle.com/models/gocycle-gs/

I think an electric bike would be great but I've ruled it out due to weight considerations. For me it's critically important to be able to heave it into and out of the lazarette, dinghy, etc. etc. etc.



This is actually a big disadvantage of Bromptons -- the H6 weighs over 12kg, so more than my Jetstream although the Jetstream has 27 gears, full suspension, bigger wheels, and super rigid frame. The Brommie really ought to be 3kg lighter than that. This an advantage of the Pakit, which weighs about 10kg with 8 speed hub.

[WTRacer]

This might tick all your boxes, except folded size. Front wheel off might be ok but I don't know how much space you have free.


Not cheap but available belt drive with internally geared hub (Sturmey archer) It's also super lightweight.


https://www.hummingbirdbike.com/shop...elt-drive-bike

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by WTRacer

This might tick all your boxes, except folded size. Front wheel off might be ok but I don't know how much space you have free.

Not cheap but available belt drive with internally geared hub (Sturmey Archer) It's also super lightweight.

https://www.hummingbirdbike.com/shop...elt-drive-bike

That looks pretty nice -- and very light.


But £3950 and a Sturmey Archer hub?


And folded size is a box which really needs to be ticked for me.

[WTRacer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That looks pretty nice -- and very light.


But £3950 and a Sturmey Archer hub?


And folded size is a box which really needs to be ticked for me.

Only trying to help, honest!


To be fair, you've not stated a budget as far as I can see. Nor your size requirements, other than holding Brompton as the standard.


Sturmey Archer aren't Chris King but they're decent enough I reckon.


Anyway I'll keep looking around to see if there's anything else but I fear the only way you will get exactly what you want is with a big spend.


One thing did occur to me, there are plenty of talented frame builders out there. Whilst it would involve more effort, getting something custom built might actually end up being the only way to truly get what you want.


Hmm, I could get laughed at suggesting this, and you might if you actually tried it but have you considered a phone call to Brompton along the lines of, gimme a fully Ti framed version pretty please and while you're at it, a drive train without derailleurs. If they didn't laugh, I'd guess at needing to be seated for the quote

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by WTRacer

Only trying to help, honest!


To be fair, you've not stated a budget as far as I can see. Nor your size requirements, other than holding Brompton as the standard.


Sturmey Archer aren't Chris King but they're decent enough I reckon.


Anyway I'll keep looking around to see if there's anything else but I fear the only way you will get exactly what you want is with a big spend.


One thing did occur to me, there are plenty of talented frame builders out there. Whilst it would involve more effort, getting something custom built might actually end up being the only way to truly get what you want.


Hmm, I could get laughed at suggesting this, and you might if you actually tried it but have you considered a phone call to Brompton along the lines of, gimme a fully Ti framed version pretty please and while you're at it, a drive train without derailleurs. If they didn't laugh, I'd guess at needing to be seated for the quote

I have no particular set budget, but like everyone I'd like to get more for less if possible.


There is a Brommie with titanium parts but you pay a lot for a modest weight saving and it's still a Brommie.


Bike Friday Pakit is better, lighter, and can be specified better. Belt drive and 8 speed (or 11 speed) Alfine hub is a big plus. It is pretty costly, however, and long lead time to get it built and shipped over here. Doesn't fold as nicely as a Brommie, but with a little effort it goes into a backpack which looks like would stow pretty darn well on the boat.


There's no perfect bike. I might spend some coin for a custom, but who would design it? I should probably just bite the bullet and either order a Pakit and wait for it, or settle for a Brommie.

[WTRacer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have no particular set budget, but like everyone I'd like to get more for less if possible.


There is a Brommie with titanium parts but you pay a lot for a modest weight saving and it's still a Brommie.


I've just been researching weights of Brompton components. Sure the Ti fork and rear triangle are pricey but the weight savings are substantial imo. Fork 350g vs 565. Rear frame 468g vs 755.
During the search I found info on a 7.3kg Brompton Build your own Superlight Brompton
I suspect, but don't know, a large part of the weight of them like most off the shelf bikes, is in mediocre standard parts which can be easily rectified.



Bike Friday Pakit is better, lighter, and can be specified better. Belt drive and 8 speed (or 11 speed) Alfine hub is a big plus. It is pretty costly, however, and long lead time to get it built and shipped over here. Doesn't fold as nicely as a Brommie, but with a little effort it goes into a backpack which looks like would stow pretty darn well on the boat.


Feels like you're talking yourself into one of these



There's no perfect bike. I might spend some coin for a custom, but who would design it? I should probably just bite the bullet and either order a Pakit and wait for it, or settle for a Brommie. The odd 'borrowed' idea here and there without actually copying someone might be possible. Then again this company seems to do extensive mods including custom frame options on Bromptons https://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/fo...rear-triangle/

A final thought, did you check the dimensions on the Hummingbird or judge based on the website pics?

I think they do themselves a disservice as they don't show front wheel removed, figures are:


Standard fold 1160x55x20 cm
Front wheel off 85x55x20 cm

This is still 28cm longer than the Brompton, but a little less height and width.


A few enjoyable hours searching I think I've exhausted whatever help this has been.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by WTRacer

A final thought, did you check the dimensions on the Hummingbird or judge based on the website pics?

I think they do themselves a disservice as they don't show front wheel removed, figures are:


Standard fold 1160x55x20 cm
Front wheel off 85x55x20 cm

This is still 28cm longer than the Brompton, but a little less height and width.


A few enjoyable hours searching I think I've exhausted whatever help this has been.

Tremendous help, and really interesting -- thank you!


I am studying all these ideas, in depth -- thanks!