Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

[JDanielBryant]

I bought a used Monitor for $1,200 and it works like a champ. You will have to drop another $200 or so on the 316 stainless tube/pipe and do a little engineering but it is well worth it.

[Paul L]

Many windvanes get very little use. The people that use them and rely on them are not likely to sell them. The people that bought them as a backup or just got frustrated and went to an electronic autopilot are more likely to be the sellers.
I bought a Sailomat used for 1/3 the new cost. It had almost no use. I sold it after a few years for more than I paid for it.
One thing to consider is how complex or straight forward your install is. The more complex, the more a new unit might shine.

[Cpt Mark]

Being frugal I too looked for a used windvane. I bought a "used" brand new Hydrovane from a couple who'd bought it and found it couldn't be installed.

Price was great. What was not so great was the description. She accidentally misrepresented the length of the shaft which made the unit useless on my boat. Of course it was months after I'd paid for this before I discovered the error.

Hydrovane is a dream company to work with and I cannot say enough about their customer service. I did not buy the unit from them but they treated me as if I had. Many emails and phone conversations about what was needed and where to mount.

Once we figured all that out they gave me credit for the parts I needed to swap out. Who does this??? Obviously a superior company.

I contacted the seller on this forum and explained what happened and what the cost difference was. Never heard back.

I still got a deal even with the extra costs. But if you're going to buy this way, try and get the original paperwork which lists all the parts sold.

[Ramona]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

I bought an older, but lightly used Aries in the US and shipped it to Germany. I took it to the Aries factory now in Amsterdam and the young owner of the company looked over, replaced one part and told me it was good to go. He also said the model I had was one of the better productions.

Aside from buying a wheel adapter and some universal blocks to run the control lines to the wheel, I had no other expenses.

I think I paid less than half of a new vane.

Although a Monitor was on the winning boat in the last GGR, I think #2 and #3 had Aries.

The new owner of Aries, Lean Nelis, is a young Dutchman and his service is exemplary.

The winning boat actually used a Hydrovane. The Aries used in the race were secondhand and not overhauled.
I bought a used Aries recently. It's one of the Denmark built ones and has already circumnavigated. It's probably 35 years old but looks new. Works extremely well. The young Dutchman running the company now has a couple of excellent youtube videos well worth watching. This Aries replaces a series of homebuilt windvane self steerers and if your not skilled with tools buying a secondhand Aries is the way to go. Building a windvane gear is not expensive but the labour is intensive. I would recommend any of the Aries. Even the first British built ones are still giving good service and parts will always be available.

[CarinaPDX]

Instead of everyone carting out their opinions yet again, how about the OP reading this (current) thread first: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ne-228106.html . One of the referenced vanes is the Windy (https://windyselfsteering.com/selfsteering/) which starts at 1200 EUR - no need to pay $3k-$5k for a vane.

Let me re-iterate one of the messages from that thread: older Monitors can corrode from the inside out, at the welds, so that is one place that must be inspected before buying. A cheap USB inspection camera might do the job.

Greg

[mawtty]

I bought a uesd Stainless steel copy of the Airies vane. Beautifully engineered and polished. it cost $1000 and it was fairly easy to fit.
After five years of tinkering with it I havn't used it once with success.
Wrong gear ratio. restricted swing of oar. flip flap to restricted.
In the past I have made three servo pendulum vanes of my own design and all three worked perfectly. Each cost under 500 to build with scrap 316 ss.
The trick is in the gearing. 2:3 ratio works best. much better driving a tiller than a wheel steering.
Tulku Tim.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

I am currently looking to buy a used windvane, but I am a cheap sailor and cannot afford to pay twice for the same thing. At the same time eager to avoid the $4K+ outlay for a new unit. Crazy, eh?

Is buying a used windvane a shot in the dark?

Looking at used units, prices vary from $1K to 3K. There are risks and the savings can evaporate rather quickly if not careful, but unless you have the selling unit measurements, how can you be careful?
Buying long distance or online is hard to be precise, hence the increased risk of spending more money later to make the unit fit the boat.

The problem is if we try to obtain further information and measurements before committing, someone else will just jump ahead and buy the unit. So, you need to act quickly, which multiplies the risk.

Peter Foerthmann, Windpilot’s owner wrote (the emphasys is mine): “Some of the prices asked and paid for sales both private and via eBay are remarkable, which is always great for sellers, but only great for buyers if their purchase turns out to be exactly what they thought they were getting and they don’t end up having to spend even more to arrive at a functional steering system for their particular situation.”

See the entire blog post here.

Even the relative simple units such as the Windpilot, as Peter puts it, consists of several modules to match the original purchase - the Pacific, for example has 5 installation options, 7 rudder shaft lengths, 2 windvane shaft lengths and 5 transmission variants.

So I’d appreciate hearing experiences from people who bought used units and care to share the lessons they learned. Was it worth it? Regrets?
Thanks in advance.

I would think that a possible problem would be the attachment arms to the hull unless you purchased a used one that was made for your sister boat. When I purchased my Monitor the company recommended that I modify the stern pulpit for a better/closer attachment which I did and it has operated well. But would it fit properly on a sister boat without a modified stern pulpit...I don't know. So, if buying used a lot of info would be warranted and it would help to see the present installation before hand.

Then comes the condition of the windvane itself and the availability of parts...so an establish company might be advantageous.

Something as important as a windvane for offshore use led me to buy new...who knows what problems I might have had with a used one.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Instead of everyone carting out their opinions yet again, how about the OP reading this (current) thread first: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ne-228106.html . One of the referenced vanes is the Windy (https://windyselfsteering.com/selfsteering/) which starts at 1200 EUR - no need to pay $3k-$5k for a vane.

Let me re-iterate one of the messages from that thread: older Monitors can corrode from the inside out, at the welds, so that is one place that must be inspected before buying. A cheap USB inspection camera might do the job.

Greg

Hi Greg, this is the OP.
I am the one who mentioned the Windy in the other thread, they are the new kid on the block, and I am in touch with them.

I started this thread becasue I almost purchased a used unit - twice. I say almost because I did not have the time to complete the chcking of measurements before the units were sold.

The conversation here is not which is the best, but rather the experience of buying second hand, and we have received some very good stories to learn from.

[Mediator]

We bought and installed a used Monitor for about 60% of retail. The unit was never used and had a variety of spares. We had to buy new mounting brackets and tubes to fit our particular transom, but Scanmar was very easy to work with and even provided the necessary schematics for free before we committed to purchasing the unit.

Lots have been written about the pros, cons, and history of the Monitor on aforementioned threads. One overarching theme of this particular thread is to make sure that the model and size of the windvane is suitable for your boat. If you email Scanmar with your vessel model and year, they will provide measurements/schematics, photos, and tips from past installations for free. Other manufacturers might also provide a similar service so it it definitely something to consider.

During our search we found that many used windvanes are only a few years old and sometimes never used. I think it’s somewhat common for aspiring sailors to buy a windvane in preparation for extended bluewater voyaging only to find that coastal day sailing is better suited to their lifestyle.

[Disailor]

http://windvaneselfsteering.co.uk/?LMCL=NwlWTE

[Shoalbay]

I bought a 30 year old Aries that had crossed the Pacific twice for U$1200.
Spent about U$300 making adapter tubing, break-away sleeves, and angle Al bolt-on lugs.
Replacement Delrin sleeve bearings were easily machinable.
The Aries circumnavigated the North Pacific with no problems.
Having said all that, I would rather have fitted a Hydrovane because they also serve as a backup rudder.

[Hoodsail]

Appreciate your angst in looking for a Windvane. I've been looking for same...found a used Monitor on the web..spoke with Scanmar, who was amazing. Key is getting the serial # off the model being sold, calling Scanmar who will let you know age of unit and risk of metal fatigue. With my boat model/size they gave me what mounting brackets needed and cost. Unfortunately when I asked seller for serial number, he never responded. Considering building my own using Hebridean kit...good luck in your quest.

[Keld Hummer]

I have bought a yacht with centercockpit and therefore I can't use my Monitor windwane, therefore I will sell my Monitor windwane for 2.600 US$ excl. shipping cost from Denmark.

There are extra s/s tubes and wanes in the price.
I have no idea how much it will cost for shipping out of Denmark.

[gold]

Monitor windvanes are a good option for many vessels, and have very little in the way of degradable parts, the structure is all stainless, and the main gear is bronze. No aluminum components, and only a few minor parts that wear and are easily replaced as needed. Fitting to another boat commonly requires changes to the mounting legs, which are pretty simple tubing.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by gold

Monitor windvanes are a good option for many vessels, and have very little in the way of degradable parts, the structure is all stainless, and the main gear is bronze. No aluminum components, and only a few minor parts that wear and are easily replaced as needed. Fitting to another boat commonly requires changes to the mounting legs, which are pretty simple tubing.

Huh? Many windvanes use lots of aluminum. Plus plenty of welded stainless steel windvanes that get heavy use end up with cracked welds.