Dinghy & outboard considerations from scratch

[sanibel sailor]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

I have now torqueedo 1003 for 2 years and love it. We had 2 warranty issues.

2 significant repairs in 2 years and you still love it? Not sure I would. Will you still love it after the warranty expires?

[Nicholson58]

We have friends who bought an OC Tender carbon fiber Dinghy and drive it everywhere with a Torquedo.

https://octenders.co.nz/

These weigh far less than an inflatable and are easy to propel. No tubes to leak, wide gunwale for sitting, soft pad all around, very stable.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

2 significant repairs in 2 years and you still love it? Not sure I would. Will you still love it after the warranty expires?

See, that's it. I encounter that sentiment every time the subject of Torqueedos comes up. People love them for the quiet and convenience and find that the range is "good enough." But they fail.


Sooner or later reliable electric outboards are going to show up on the market, whether from Torqueedo or a competitor. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. Torqueedo seems to be more interested in pursuing higher-horsepower products than in shoring up the reliability and distribution network for their basic offerings.

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by thinwater

If there is ANY significant risk of thunderstorms, there is a material risk of very severe weather. Sailing 101. They don't come out of no where, and I bet there was thunder for several minutes (time to recover a dinghy) before they struck. And if you have davits you NEVER leave the dinghy in the water. That's the advantage of having davits!


Yeah, I would keep it light, no more than 6 hp. Planing isn't needed where you sail, and 6 hp will plane one person.

Thanks so much for your truly valuable comment where you assume you know more about my experience than I do, and where you gave a completely irrelevant answer to my question. FYI the first audible thunder was less than a minute before the wind hit, and it is completely commonplace to leave a dinghy behind when expecting to use it again before moving the boat. As for your recommendation, thanks for the insight that 6hp will plane one person, never would have guessed that since my 2.5hp can plane one person. Finally, a genuine question: what did you mean by "planing isn't needed when you sail"? Are you suggesting sailors don't have to travel distances in the dinghy that make the ability to plane useful? Or that I shouldn't be planing the dinghy while sailing? Honestly have no clue what you're trying to say with that comment...


As for everyone else, genuine thanks for the input. As tempting as the torqueedo is, I think I'll stick to gas for now. There's a tohatsu dealer local who should be able to set me up with something in the 4-6 hp range that won't be too heavy.

Would anyone argue for a rigid dinghy over a RIB? It mostly sounds like I should default to the typical RIB, hypalon if possible?

[mikedefieslife]

The Suzuki 6hp and the Selva Piranha 9.9hp are two of the lightest outboards presuming you can only buy 4 strokes. I believe they are 26 and 32kg respectively.

Rigid dinghies are almost always heavier than RIBs, have a lower payload capacity, and less stability. Plenty of people love them for the zero maintenance though.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

A few nights ago, I was hit by a microburst (or something very like) while anchored in Newport, RI - 50+kts for 5-10 minutes or so with no warning. Luckily, most of the boats held (including me, phew), and those that dragged were able to motor up against the wind until it abated, and then reset. However, I had my dinghy on a leash on the stern for easy shore access, since no serious weather was predicted at the time. The poor dink was flipped, drowning the outboard, then pinned up against the hull and chafed pretty good, causing a slow leak that I'm yet to identify.

All this to say, I find myself in a situation where insurance may be about to buy me a new dinghy & outboard. Still waiting to hear back on coverage details, but I may have an opportunity to at least have the new kit subsidized by insurance, if not outright paid for. So my question is: What do people like/dislike or think is important when selecting the dinghy and/or outboard?

My current dinghy is a little 8-ft RIB. It fits on my davits, so I'm hesitant to look at anything bigger, even though that would be nice for when I have guests and need to transport 4+ people. The current outboard is a Yamaha 2.5 HP. It gets me on plane when I'm alone in the dinghy, but not with 2 or more people on board, so I'd love a bit more power. However, I'm curious about the weight trade-off there. Since I single-hand most of the time, I definitely want to be able to manhandle the outboard on and off by myself. Plus, I don't want something that will unbalance my small dinghy.

Also, if anyone has thoughts specifically on electric outboards. I'm curious about that, since my solar capacity means I could likely keep it charged up mostly for free, and a silent outboard would be lovely. But do they last? Have enough power to get me on plane? Hold enough charge for longer trips? I know almost nothing about them.

Anyway, curious to hear others' thoughts on the matter. Thanks!

Here's a rather brief overview on the most popular electric motors, they don't go into much detail about the advantages/disadvantaes of the Torqueedo vs. the Epropulsion but the later is made in the states and is a bit cheaper so service should be easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps8QD4vQwAo

My favorite dinghy would be the NZ OC Tender. They far outlast a typical dinghy as they're made of GRP and/or Carbon Fiber. But they're expensive and are made to order - so you may not have the time wait on one. That said, a 10' Hypalon/Aluminum Rib would be my next choice. Not sure about the brand as Highfield seems to be the most popular but I'm unsure if that's the best bang for your buck.

[sail sfbay]

[QUOTE=JebLostInSpace;3219066...............What do people like/dislike or think is important when selecting the dinghy and/or outboard? My current dinghy is a little 8-ft RIB............. and outboard is a Yamaha 2.5 HP.[/QUOTE]

I replaced my 9'6" dinghy with a 8'-4" West Marine PRU-3 roll up dinghy because it cost $650 on sale and weighed 53 lbs, both 50% of my previous dinghy. The lower weight makes it easy for me to mange myself. As far as on outboard motor I replaced my 2.5 hp gasoline engine with a 505 Torqeedo with 915 WH extended range battery from Defender, who has an exclusive for this combination to eliminate the gas can, smell, heavy outboard and maintenance, albeit $800 more than a gasoline outboard. You could purchase a Torqeedo 1003, but you might find after reading the performance comparison that the 503 might be adequate,

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-...boat--14272488
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=4386372

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

Here's a rather brief overview on the most popular electric motors, they don't go into much detail about the advantages/disadvantaes of the Torqueedo vs. the Epropulsion but the later is made in the states and is a bit cheaper so service should be easy.

My favorite dinghy would be the NZ OC Tender. They far outlast a typical dinghy as they're made of GRP and/or Carbon Fiber. But they're expensive and are made to order - so you may not have the time wait on one. That said, a 10' Hypalon/Aluminum Rib would be my next choice. Not sure about the brand as Highfield seems to be the most popular but I'm unsure if that's the best bang for your buck.

Basically none of those electric motors will plane even an inflatable let alone a rib. Whereas a 2.5-3.5 gas powered motor will up to 8 knts, which is what I found with my Mercury 2.5 modified with a 3.5 carb.

Nothing wrong with not being able to plane, but it limits your anchoring opportunities and somewhere like the Caribbean where it's blowing up to 25 knots possibly more almost every day in most anchorages, you will get very wet.

I spent 2 years with a 2.5-3.5 motor. Going up to 8hp, was massive improvement, in comfort, and lifestyle with little drawback (I can still just about man handle it at 26kg).

[Phennessey]

Whatever you do DO NOT buy a PVC RIB from West Marine. They are pure junk, in fact it won’t last a year. Goes sticky so that you will actually stick to it when you get up. Doesn’t matter that your in the NE. Doesn’t matter how often and religiously you apply UV protectant, it will start to rapidly degrade immediately. I shop at West Marine but will NEVER buy another RIB from there. Don’t want to hurt their business either but they do a good enough job at that themselves.

[MultiCountryDon]

Originally Posted by Jammer

See, that's it. I encounter that sentiment every time the subject of Torqueedos comes up. People love them for the quiet and convenience and find that the range is "good enough." But they fail.


Sooner or later reliable electric outboards are going to show up on the market, whether from Torqueedo or a competitor. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. Torqueedo seems to be more interested in pursuing higher-horsepower products than in shoring up the reliability and distribution network for their basic offerings.

Interesting comment's. You have personally owned each outboard commented on or is this a collection of bar tales?
I have in the last 8 years owned 2 small Suzuki, one 2.3 Honda, and 1 Torqueedo. The Suzuki engines were junk, leaving me rowing or being towed by Yamahas or Mercs. Worst outboards ever. The little Honda was great with no issues and still doing well 4 years later with the new owner of that big boat.
My Torqueedo has never had an issue of any sort in the last 2.5 years, except it won't plane the 10ft. CARIBE. No opinions, just experience.
Don

[UYA]

Originally Posted by MultiCountryDon

Interesting comment's. You have personally owned each outboard commented on or is this a collection of bar tales?
I have in the last 8 years owned 2 small Suzuki, one 2.3 Honda, and 1 Torqueedo. The Suzuki engines were junk, leaving me rowing or being towed by Yamahas or Mercs. Worst outboards ever. The little Honda was great with no issues and still doing well 4 years later with the new owner of that big boat.
My Torqueedo has never had an issue of any sort in the last 2.5 years, except it won't plane the 10ft. CARIBE. No opinions, just experience.
Don

So here is my experience:
We owned a Torqueedo Travel for 2 years. We used it every single day, first on the European Atlantic coast, then in the Caribbean. It worked great until it didn't.
We had the control unit in the tiller replaced.
The motor controller (in the black unit next to the motor) failed once.
The engine bearing broke once (possible due to impact thus misalignment)
We sold it because we couldn't trust it anymore.



And here is my opinion:
I really like the Torqeedo outboard concept:

• They are light, come apart in 3 parts => handling is easy
• They can be recharged on board, no gasoline needed. Although we had only 200 Watt solar at the time it was sufficient to recharge
• They have enough power and endurance if you don't plan on planing
• No oil change, no gas spills, no fumes, no environmental impact at the anchorage

Having said that, Torqeedo has a few design flaws that they haven't fixed in years. Design flaws that shouldn't happen at the premium price (almost 3x gasoline engine):

• The tiller computer is only protected by a glued on see through plastic foil. The glue looses its watertightness over time (I assume through sun / heat). That allows water to get into the computer (happened to us twice).
• The engine unit is sealed off by 2 O-rings. According to the Torqeedo dealer in Guadeloupe they are not saltwater proof but need to be changed after 100 hours of salt water exposure. Not driving hours but salt water exposure period. WTF? If water gets in the motor controller is gone.
• The engine casing is made out of plastic -> not very robust in case of hitting something. I think they changed that recently, not sure.
• The battery and tiller cable connectors are made out of plastic. They will wear out after years of daily use. At least they did for us.
• The shaft paint will flake off after a while in salt water

Would I buy another electrical outboard? Absolutely - I think they are the future, at least for the little outboards. But I am waiting for one that comes without these no go design flaws. I would like to try the ePropulsion to see the difference.

[DeValency]

Can’t really refer to the electric outboard question. I would say it is a compelling solution for a small dinghy and if you were generally ok with your 2.5HP gas, you could be happy with the stronger in the line Torqeedo as suggested here.

As for a new dinghy, as a general rule I would highly recommend the smallest and lightest aluminum hull hypalon rib and outboard for your day to day needs.

The former owners of my cruising boat - just a couple, purchased 11’ AB, GRP double floor RIB, hypalon and a 15HP Yamaha... Great for 6 people plus cargo, but who need that for 2-4 people? - this whole thing weights a ton. Unless on a mooring for a few days, I hesitate to even using my dinghy as it is so difficult to setup - even with excellent davits, as the super heavy outboard is mounted on the boat railing etc. etc.

But if anyone is really in a need of such a monster dinghy, currently in Savannah, GA - PM me...

[Sailor647]

We have an Achilles (9.5 feet) inflatable with a hard bottom, and a 9.9 hp Yamaha four-stroke. The dinghy is a 2008 - 12 years old. We have not had a single problem with it, including inflation. It does have chaps, which protects it from the hot Mexican sun. Having a hard bottom has helped protect the dinghy against beach landings. We also installed those amazing dinghy wheels from New Zealand. They are super sturdy and have never failed.

The Yamaha 9.9 is a 2015 - 5 years old. Only one problem - we had to replace the prop, which we had onboard. It gets serviced annually. Spares are easy to come by and service is easy peasy.

The dingy is locked to the stern for overnight anchorages via cable, stored on davits for day sailing, lashed to the bow for crossings and open ocean. The outboard is stored on the stern rail on its white plastic/stainless mount when it isn't on the dinghy. Never on the dinghy on the davits. Talk about a fulcrum!

Being able to plane the dingy and get somewhere fast has been useful in several semi-emergency situations regarding other boaters. We also use it for fishing. It is extremely fuel efficient. Gasoline is stored in a 5 gallon plastic gasoline can in the cockpit in open air. Never been a problem.

I can personally attest that the Achilles 9.5 will easily hold over 55 gallons of sea water (when you get it swamped leaving the beach )and the Yamaha 9.9 will make a quick trip with the flooded dingy and two drenched sailors to the boat in time to keep the boat from hitting the pier in San Simeon Bay because the anchor is dragging.

There is something to be said for cheap POWER.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Would anyone argue for a rigid dinghy over a RIB? It mostly sounds like I should default to the typical RIB, hypalon if possible?

This forum has an overwhelming number of proponents of hypalon RIBs. Part of it's geography since the CF active posters tend to skew towards Caribbean/South Pacific cruisers rather than coastal and Great Lakes cruisers where hard dinks are more common.


There are two types of rigid dinghies to consider with different tradeoffs:


1) Rigid planing boats. Lightweight examples are hard to find but see the Bateau GV-10 and GV-11, available as plans, finished weight under 100 pounds for the GV-10. These will last longer than RIBs, are better under oars (though not great), will plane with less HP, are not susceptible to damage from sharp things, and have more interior space. Aluminum production boats exist but are hard to find in small enough sizes and light enough builds; see the Lund A-12 which is 60" abeam and weighs 164 pounds as an example. Smaller and lighter boats with a V bow do exist but aren't available from Lund, makers tend to be regional so you have to shop.


2) Rigid displacement boats. These would include Trinka, Portland Pudgy, Walker Bay, and many kit and plans boats (PT-11, FB-11, Passagemaker, Two Paw, Chameleon). The advantages are that they can be rowed and sailed, and lacking a large outboard are not attractive theft targets. They are slower and not suitable for crossing large distances.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Thanks so much for your truly valuable comment where you assume you know more about my experience than I do, and where you gave a completely irrelevant answer to my question. FYI the first audible thunder was less than a minute before the wind hit, and it is completely commonplace to leave a dinghy behind when expecting to use it again before moving the boat. As for your recommendation, thanks for the insight that 6hp will plane one person, never would have guessed that since my 2.5hp can plane one person. Finally, a genuine question: what did you mean by "planing isn't needed when you sail"? Are you suggesting sailors don't have to travel distances in the dinghy that make the ability to plane useful? Or that I shouldn't be planing the dinghy while sailing? Honestly have no clue what you're trying to say with that comment...


As for everyone else, genuine thanks for the input. As tempting as the torqueedo is, I think I'll stick to gas for now. There's a tohatsu dealer local who should be able to set me up with something in the 4-6 hp range that won't be too heavy.

Would anyone argue for a rigid dinghy over a RIB? It mostly sounds like I should default to the typical RIB, hypalon if possible?

Yup, you are lost in space.


a. I didn't suggest that there was always a long period thunder, I suggested that thunderstorms were in the forecast. In fact, there is often little thunder before the initial gust front. I'm also pretty certain there where dark clouds in the distance. These are a prerequisite for thunder, since it requires consider able circulation. And a 50 kt down draft requires a tall cloud. Am I wrong about these things? You did not say that I was.


b. Being commonplace to leave a dinghy in the water does not make it smart. I have davits and don't leave the dinghy in the water, hardly ever. Now you know one reason. But wakes can also be a problem.


Yes, planing is useful, but I gave you my opinion. I assumed that you wanted something light that would be easy to hoist on the davits, since you elected not to bother to lift the dinghy the few inches out of the water, which would have avoided the problem. An incorrect assumption.


Perhaps I seem like a smartass, but that was not my intention and I am sorry you took it that way. But you continue to argue that you did not make a basic error. The important lesson is that weather is predictable in its unpredictability in the summer. A very important lesson. I've been sailing 40 years and I've learned and relearned this lesson many times. I only get surprised by weather when I am guilty of not paying attention... which happens, though not often, not anymore.