Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?

[Pete7]

Whose regulations?

If the wind vane was mounted so that the blade can be lifted up, Port side I think for a Pacific, then the ladder goes on the starboard side at the same height as now with a rope tail to pull it down if necessary, though ours can be reached from someone in the water without problem.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Whose regulations?

If the wind vane was mounted so that the blade can be lifted up, Port side I think for a Pacific, then the ladder goes on the starboard side at the same height as now with a rope tail to pull it down if necessary, though ours can be reached from someone in the water without problem.

That’s from the EU small craft directive

It’s a very good , very seamanlike regulation

Remember ...many people die each year by falling overboard ....at anchor ...and not being able to reboard

[africanmarco]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Whose regulations?

If the wind vane was mounted so that the blade can be lifted up, Port side I think for a Pacific, then the ladder goes on the starboard side at the same height as now with a rope tail to pull it down if necessary, though ours can be reached from someone in the water without problem.

In the case of the Pacific Light, yes, the blade is lifted on the port side, but it does not interfere with the swimming ladder, fixed on the port side of the transom

Tried to attach a couple of photos of the transom of my boat but failed :-(

[Sojourn2]

I would check out a suitable Windpilot model.
Great system with an emergency rudder as an optional extra.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by slug

That’s from the EU small craft directive

It’s a very good , very seamanlike regulation

Remember ...many people die each year by falling overboard ....at anchor ...and not being able to reboard

You mean the Recreational Craft Directive, currently version 2.

If a centre ladder will work, why won't the same ladder on the starboard side of the transom work?

[slug]

Originally Posted by Pete7

You mean the Recreational Craft Directive, currently version 2.

If a centre ladder will work, why won't the same ladder on the starboard side of the transom work?

Gee..I don’t know what the pilot mounting geometry looks like and I don’t know what the boarding ladder geometry looks like

In the end the pilot must function correctly and the boarding ladder must function correctly

[Jim Cate]

FWIW: when I built a home designed aux rudder w/trim tab wind vane for our previous cruising boat I simply put steps on the rudder blade which made a usable boarding ladder. Is there no way to use the beefy structure of a prospective vane in your case?

If not, a side mounted boarding ladder can be designed, and in fact for boarding in chopy seas, a ladder near the shrouds will be less affected by pitching, and the shrouds make good handholds whilst climbing.

Finally, ladders are relatively easy to mount and to move, compared to wind vanes. So, it makes sense to me to mount the vane properly on center and fool around with the ladder, not the other way around.

Jim

[Ramona]

Not sure why there is all this guff about emergency rudders. How many failures are there? Buy or build the best windvane self steering gear and mount it central. The windvane will be used most, sometimes non stop for up to 9 months at a time.
Mount the ladder on the port side on the stern if your right handed. I'm fortunate enough to have an Aries mounted central and there is a step on the stern behind it. I can board the boat from the water using the windvanes oar or the top edge of the rudder blade. One of these days I will install a rope with a foot loop that reaches down about 300mm under the waterline so I can get the first leg up. Have it rolled up and stored on the side of the windvane with a bit of velcro.

[roverhi]

Don't have a ladder on the stern, use the WindPilot Pacific Plus as the boarding ladder. Not as easy to use as a ladder but have no problems getting back on board.

Monitor advertises using their vane with an additional rudder blade attachment as an emergency rudder. I had the attachment for my Monitor but it really looked mickey mouse and the vane didn't seem sturdy enough to support the set up as a rudder. It apparently is enough to satisfy the Single Handed Sailing Society's requirements for an emergency rudder.

[GTom]

Originally Posted by sailing_gal

I believe the Monitor now makes a vane that hinges, so you can use the ladder. But I installed a Hydrovane on my boat, just enough off -center so I can use the stern boarding ladder. Not a problem.

Correct, they call it swing gate. Not really an option when looking at affordable 2nd hand options though.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW: when I built a home designed aux rudder w/trim tab wind vane for our previous cruising boat I simply put steps on the rudder blade which made a usable boarding ladder. Is there no way to use the beefy structure of a prospective vane in your case?
Jim

That's an option indeed. Looking at the Monitors, even the older ones, their mounting seems more robust than my ladder. However, I would not step on the rudder, better add an extension to the mount.

[StoneCrab]

Originally Posted by GTom

Removing the ladder is not completely off the table but I'd keep it if I can.

Others may weigh in, but a stern boarding ladder has a lot of vertical movement if you are using it to get out of the water. I think a midship ladder is better. Shorter climb, less movement.

If you need to assist someone out of the water, a sling off of the boom can move above a midship ladder. That way the victim/impared can help if they are conscious.

A Monitor Windvane provides a good bit of structure if you are just climbing out of the dingy onto the stern.

I'd move the ladder.

[Eder]

I wouldn't let my boat leave the dock without the ladder on the swim platform. Why not just add a back up auto pilot & forget the wind vane? I carry a small drogue in the event I need some kind of steering...works in a blow as well.

[geoff3nebel]

I have a 41’ westerly oceanlord with a center mounted boarding ladder. I fitted a Hydrovane 12” off-center and it steers perfectly when heeled on port or starboard tack. The Hydrovane’s rudder is very deep and only marginally shorter than the Oceanlord’s balanced rudder.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW: when I built a home designed aux rudder w/trim tab wind vane for our previous cruising boat I simply put steps on the rudder blade which made a usable boarding ladder. Is there no way to use the beefy structure of a prospective vane in your case?


Jim

Out of interest Jim do you have any pics of that set-up? Seems like a great idea, and the steps sound similar to the external adaptations they used to do on faster multihulls with transom mounted rudders to reduce an apparent tendency to suck air down at speed and stall the rudder.
Did you think it was a success, or anything you would change (I gather you haven't done the same for your current boat)?

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Sojourn2

I would check out a suitable Windpilot model.
Great system with an emergency rudder as an optional extra.

Yes, peters got a great product.
I just sold mine to a fellow in FL.
Wouldn't be mounting it very soon.
By the way check his prices.
They've changed little in 7 or 8 yrs.
Highly recommended Self Steering Gear.
SV Cloud Duster